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Can they just fire me like that?

35 replies

anakoga · 16/06/2023 17:52

Hi mums, I am new here and I hope you can help me.
I have been working for my current employer for 5 years. A month ago, they informed us that there would be a restructuring process and as a result everyone in the team (15 people in total) are at risk of redundancy. They created 20 new roles (bringing it to a team of 20 in total) and told us that we could apply for them. Most of the roles were pretty much identical to the previous roles, except different titles. I decided to apply for the equivalent of my previous role as well as a more senior role to my current one. I was invited for an interview, officially to discuss both roles, but it almost exclusively covered the more senior role. The interview went well and I was very confident that I would manage to secure at least the role that is the equivalent of my current one.
Today I was called into a meeting by HR and the hiring manager and was told that none of applications was successful and as a result I was going to be made redundant.
When I asked them about the reasons why my application to the role that was the equivalent of my current role was unsuccessful they gave me 2 reasons:

  • one performance related, which is untrue and can be easily dismissed with numbers, facts and evidence. I immediately highlighted the evidence but they just sat there, silent
  • one very fluffy reason about me not being able to adapt to new environments which again is untrue as I went through a lot of reorganisations in the 5 years with the company. Besides, this point that they now claim is so crucial for the role was not even mentioned or asked about in the interview
All other team members in my immediate sub team of 4, who had applied for the role identical to theirs managed to secure it. My performance has always been excellent throughout and has been highlighted in my annual appraisals. I can not help but think that it is a case of unconscious bias as I am the only person of colour in a otherwise non diverse team. They clearly don't want me anymore and I don't want to stay in a business that doesn't value me. But I am the main earner in the household and have 2 kids so I need to max out at least my redundancy pay. What should I do? I don't want to go to an employment tribunal but how can I put the frighteners up them to pay at least a fair sum?
OP posts:
JellyMouldJnr · 16/06/2023 17:56

Have they put their reasons for not rehiring you into writing? And do you have a union? I would say they are treading very dangerous ground personally.

Billybagpuss · 16/06/2023 18:00

They will have to pay either the minimum redundancy payment, or an enhanced version if it’s in their employment handbook. there is a way of working out how much you’ll get on the gov website.

Have you had any feelings of racial discrimination against you prior to this. It might be worth having a chat with ACAS or a union rep to see if it’s worthy pursuing.

in the meantime you sound very capable and employable so I’m sure you’ll find something quite quickly, probably better than you currently have. Maybe get in touch with some recruitment agencies as well.

good luck and sorry you’re having to deal with that crap.

anakoga · 16/06/2023 18:03

JellyMouldJnr · 16/06/2023 17:56

Have they put their reasons for not rehiring you into writing? And do you have a union? I would say they are treading very dangerous ground personally.

No, just over the phone. Should I ask them to do it?

OP posts:
anakoga · 16/06/2023 18:04

Billybagpuss · 16/06/2023 18:00

They will have to pay either the minimum redundancy payment, or an enhanced version if it’s in their employment handbook. there is a way of working out how much you’ll get on the gov website.

Have you had any feelings of racial discrimination against you prior to this. It might be worth having a chat with ACAS or a union rep to see if it’s worthy pursuing.

in the meantime you sound very capable and employable so I’m sure you’ll find something quite quickly, probably better than you currently have. Maybe get in touch with some recruitment agencies as well.

good luck and sorry you’re having to deal with that crap.

No union unfortunately, but I will definitely try ACAS

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 16/06/2023 18:10

I am the only person of colour in a otherwise non diverse team.

Quite simply, that is how you put the frighteners on them to pay appropriate severance.

If you aren't in a union, does your home insurance have enhanced legal protection? If not, it's probably worth paying an employment lawyer, you might be able to get one on a no win, no fee basis for something like this.

JellyMouldJnr · 16/06/2023 18:15

Yes definitely ask them to provide the written form of what they have told you. Say that you want it written down so that you can seek external advice, e.g. from ACAS. Ask them whether someone else will be hired to fill these roles instead of you and why you were not selected. If they say something factually incorrect (as you said they did earlier) make sure it is corrected.

isthewashingdryyet · 16/06/2023 18:16

ACAS will show the proper procedures for redundancy, and it does not sound like they have given you enough notice, a clear outline of your severance package, and followed procedure

good luck with getting what you are owed

devildeepbluesea · 16/06/2023 18:19

1 Request reasons in writing
2 Appeal the decision
3 Contact ACAS.

Short answer is no, they can’t just dismiss you. From what you say, even though there is a restructure the number of roles is increasing? If this is the case you are not redundant, unless the roles are significantly different to your current one.

Leftphalange100 · 16/06/2023 18:20

I think it all sounds a bit dodgy, and would definitely contact ACAS

GoodChat · 16/06/2023 18:24

If they're making you redundant even though they're creating more roles that's your play here.

Tell them you'll take them to tribunal as there's clear discrimination.

They'll either offer you a job or a big ass payout.

Tippingadvice · 16/06/2023 19:02

@anakoga first step is to go to ACAS.

If you can, get hold of the job description for the level job they found you unsuitable for and your current job description. This will be key information.

I would also be asking in writing the reasons why you are not being offered the level role. At the same time ask if they have job matched your current job description to the job descriptions for the new roles and what was the outcome.

Do you have any other protected characteristics e.g. part time, disabled etc. ?

Bharath · 16/06/2023 19:08

They can’t just dismiss you like that - but you may find that the severance package you’re offered is more than you would expect to get as compensation from tribunal. In which case you might as well just accept it. You need to talk to a solicitor.

continentallentil · 16/06/2023 19:12

Do push this OP - it does not sound good at all.

It might be possible to join a union now and get support (mine does although there are some where you have to be a prior member I think.)

murasaki · 16/06/2023 19:24

We're having a restructuring, amd one of my staff who is on a fixed term contract, and is brilliant at the job, didn't get one in the first round. She got feedback, and the hiring manager asked me to talk to her, I did, re star, reflecting on her current role more etc, and she got it in the next round when they went external.

LIZS · 16/06/2023 19:25

If they are increasing the team by 5 they are obliged to offer another equivalent role before recruiting externally or give you the opportunity to refuse one. Are all on similar terms, location etc?

murasaki · 16/06/2023 19:25

So maybe you.just didn't score enough on the interview.S did the second time as all sides wanted her but they couldn't justify it off the first one

slipperypenguin · 16/06/2023 19:27

X BBC vvv B

UsethisUsername · 16/06/2023 19:47

OP get an employment solicitor and have them negotiate an exit (a Settlement Agreement) based on prospective claims of race discrimination and unfair dismissal.

Your negotiating position is stronger while you remain employed so act quickly.

cocksstrideintheevening · 16/06/2023 20:25

Has anyone else been made redundant? Is it being billed as a restructure?

Florissante · 16/06/2023 20:55

continentallentil · 16/06/2023 19:12

Do push this OP - it does not sound good at all.

It might be possible to join a union now and get support (mine does although there are some where you have to be a prior member I think.)

Unions won't take on existing cases.

Aprilx · 17/06/2023 03:01

If there are fifteen people at risk and twenty roles available, I simply do not see how this is a redundancy situation in the first place. This is a recruiting situation.

daisychain01 · 17/06/2023 05:05

Most of the roles were pretty much identical

I would check the terms and conditions of the new role to your existing role - it's highly likely they have eroded benefits.

If you are the only employee of colour being told you haven't got the job and yet your performance has always been excellent, they are walking on very thin ice. I would mention the above specific points to ACAS.

MariaVT65 · 17/06/2023 05:19

I went through redundancy last year when my company was doing a big restructure. Tbh companies/managers probably already know who they want to keep, for different reasons, and they will find lots of reasons to do so.

I personally wouldn’t bother fighting this one OP. You’re being made redundant so you should at least get some basic redundancy pay. Moving companies is also the best time to get a decent pay rise.

UsethisUsername · 17/06/2023 07:18

To those saying do nothing. Do not listen OP.

Yes redundancy can often be fair but firstly it doesn’t sound like an actual redundancy situation in the first place (there is an increase in headcount and near identical roles).

Even if it is a redundancy situation (which is unlikely) and your specific role is no longer required they have an obligation to offer suitable alternative employment which it sounds like the new role is.

Added to that you are the only person selected for redundancy and the only person of colour.

This is an employment solicitor’s dream!

Negotiate an exit and get generous settlement package.

MariaVT65 · 17/06/2023 07:24

OP has said she is the only person in her sub team of 4 that has not secured a role. OP hasn’t yet clarified that she is the only person in the wider team that hasn’t secured a role.

The company is within its rights to make the role redundant, not the person, and also to increase the number of roles/headcount. The company needs to offer opportunities first to those whose roles are going, but if they aren’t suitable, then the company has the right to offer the role externally. I literally went through this last year.

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