Employer wants me to voluntarily leave but I would like to be made redundant- can I legally ask for this?

[Daffodilsonthewindowsill]

I have worked the same job for the last 4.5 years.
Its only very part time, 9 hours per week in total, spread over 2 days but as I am a carer for my mother and have some chronic health issues myself (never affects my work), these hours and the nature of the job suit me well. I also rely on the money as it pays for things for my dc etc, so the money is needed.

The job is as a Personal Assistant for a disabled person. There is no personal care involved and to date the job involves driving this person to their sports club twice a week. I drop them off, come back home and wait for 4 hours then drive back and collect them. The sports club is over an hours drive away and an hours drive back.

My contract, which was written up when I started this job in 2019, states 9 hours per week with occasionally flexibility required. I have been more than flexible over the years as they have changed my working hours and days a few times now with minimal notice but I have always obliged.

So I went to work yesterday to be told that they no longer wish to go to the sports club and have found a social club they wish to now go to twice a week in our local town. They have said this means my hours will halve. They have given me the option of accepting the new hours (and subsequent half pay) or I can leave if this is not suitable for me. They start this new club next week.

I am not happy with either of these options tbh.

As far as I am concerned, I am contracted to work 9 hours and am and always have been available to work those hours. I appreciate they can chose to do whatever they wish with their lives but as an employer I feel that they have broken their terms of contract (I have just spoken with ACAS and they confirmed this to be true). I have done nothing wrong here and have worked to the contacted agreement.

The last thing I want to do is fall out with them or leave on bad terms as we’ve always gotten on well but I really want to ask them to make me redundant or similar.

Is this something I can ask them to do? Is that within my entitlement as an employee now faced with half contracted hours and pay? I forgot to ask ACAS this.

You've posted about this previously, haven't you? The advice that you had previously still applies. The employer told you some time ago that they wanted to do this, and that would have constituted a consultation period, so have you discussed this situation with them now? You can ask them for whatever you want - but you have to have the discussion with them, and so we really need to know what you have done since the last time that you posted. If you have done nothing then you can't claim that they sprung this on you because they didn't - and if you haven't had any discussion about it, then it wouldn't be unreaosnable of them to have taken that silence as agreement.

So if you could properly update us then that will allow better advice to be offered.

No I haven’t posted about them cutting my hours in half.
I had previously asked for advice because a few months ago they changed one of my working days but it was still the full 9 hours per week. They now want me to work either half that time or volunteer to leave the job.

Quveas they had advised me a week
ago that they MAY wish to go somewhere local and we’re thinking it throughbut assured me that nothing my side would change (ie hours and pay) etc.

I think these direct payment schemes are very difficult, as the person receiving care has possibly never been an employer before and has no clue where they stand legally.
Can I ask why you are looking for a redundancy, the payment would be tiny surely?

Perhaps you could link us to the previous thread, because it was so unusual a question that I could remember it. But what conversation have you had with them? They have told you what they want - have you raised any of these question with them because I recall very clearly that we suggested that they probably couldn't "just" do this. But context is everything. They told you last week they were thinking about it - did you speak to them then about it? You have been told this week it wll happen - what did they say when you said you didn't want to cut your hours? It isn't a straight forward as you wanting redundancy and getting paid redundancy. You might qualify for redundancy, but if they don't give it you then only a tribunal can decide that you are entitled to it and what is being offered instead isn't reasonable. Our opinions don't count - only a tribunals decision does. And you probably wouldn't win very much more because of the circumstances - a tribunal is unlikely to penalise a disabled sole employer for not understanding the law.

So what has been said when you talked to them about all this?

That that is the definition of consultation - advising you that they were thinking about it. But I was sure that you asked previously about the fact that this could /would reduce your hours. That was what made the previous post memorable.

I don't know the legalities of it, but I think you're being a little unreasonable here.

You're providing a personal service, life isn't static, their needs have changed. They can't keep employing you for hours they don't want or need because it suits you.

This must happen all the time in personal care roles- do you have an agency or anyone who you can speak to?

They need to make either the hours or the full job redundant (assuming you are employed and no self employed)
Unless your contact allows for a reduction of hours

What would be the aim of pushing for redundancy? 9 hours a week, at minimum wage, after 4 years service would qualify for £375.12 in terms of statutory redundancy - it'll be a little more if you're on more than minimum wage; or if you can drag this out until you're at 5 years (4.5 doesn't count, only whole years), but not much.

What do you want. You'll get barely anything in redundancy.

I remember your mother post.

Do you want to be made redundant from the whole job, ceasing employment?

Or do you want to be still employed for 2 hours a week?

Which is most valuable, if as a PP has worked out it’s less than £400?

I think you're painting a picture that suits you.

You couldn't be flexible in days worked, which they required. So they now are reducing your hours since you can't accomodate when they need you.

I'm sure how you phrased the situation to ACAS is not the true picture.

Surely the job still exists, therefore this wouldn't be a redundancy situation? It's a contract change and if you don't accept then they can give you your notice and off you go

If they've offered you the new job (driving to the new club, half the hours) and you have rejected it, then they need to make you redundant.

I'd think halving the hours is such a big change that it constitutes a new role, but you should check with ACAS.

This person still wants you to work and there is still work available that you could do so redundancy doesn’t seem appropriate.

Even if it were, how much would you realistically get in redundancy pay? You need to work it out, but it can’t be much. It’s probably an amount that isn’t worth the upset it would cause but still enough that it would cause some stress to a disabled person who shouldn’t be made to feel like they’re doing something terrible just doing a different hobby, which most people can take for granted.

You’ve even been lucky enough to get paid for sitting at home and doing whatever you want for four hours a week. You sound like a CF tbh, even if the law is an arse sometimes.

I see it as akin to a shopkeeper hiring someone to work only Sundays but then decides to close the shop on Sundays. They offer the employee hours on another day but the employee says no. The role is no longer necessary (the shop is closed) so the role is redundant.

How is the 9 hours worked out now? You drive them an hour each way twice a week and sit and wait for 4 hours- I can't work out where 9 hours comes from and what impact the shorter drive has.
4x 1 hour drive= 4 hours
2x 4 hours waiting = 8 hours
So that's 12 hours

Or if you're not being paid to sit around then it's 4 hours. Is there something else you do for them and if so would that continue?

You need to check what your contract says, if there is provision for change of hours then it will set out what the employer can and can't do. But if the job exists, even on reduced hours then it doesn't appear to be a redundancy.

You may find that they can change the hours without needing your agreement in which case it's not a redundancy.

Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick entirely but just checking - are you 'employed' by someone as part of their 'PA' funding from their disability allowance?

If this is the case then I'd be amazed if you're entitled to eg redundancy pay at all as the money that goes to you comes directly from the benefits agency, who are not going to give the disabled person extra money to pay you off!

I've never heard of eg a cleaner asking for redundancy and this is kind of a similar situation, no? If my understanding is right, you've been being paid to provide a personal service that is no longer required by a person, not a business?

I think you do have a claim against this employer. If they no longer wish to employ you for 9 hours a week which is what you are contracted for then they need to make you redundant. As others have said you would only get a tiny amount but I think they have a cheek asking you to just leave without compensation for ending your contract. They had the right to ask if you would agree to a reduction to your hours and you have the right to say no. You will have to tell them no though. Are you afraid of your employer, because you do sound frightened to complain?

That’s the nature of PA work things change upto you if u want to Persue a disabled person for what would be about £400

Some real ignorance on this thread re employment law.

OP is employed and has effectively been made redundant by this change. Her employer should follow redundancy processes and pay her entitled redundancy payment.

If it's for UC purposes redundancy and pushing for it makes total sense even if tiny. That's not the point with UC.

But yeah even still if the role doesn't exist it's a redundancy anyway - depends if you want to fight it or just walk away.

Cleaners are self employed which is why they don't qualify for redundancy (if they were employed as a housekeeper they would get redundancy).

I don't know what the OP's terms are, but if you are an employee you have the same employment rights as anyone else. Doesn't matter if your employer is an individual or Tescos.