Breakdown with manager - disability related sick note

[Heyyhii31]

Manager is unsupportive with my mental health (would be considered disability although i didnt tell them this when i joined, as it was well managed and i was coping. The only thing on my medical record is this and I have gone through every hoop to receive NHS treatment/medication. It’s long standing and substantial (as proved on medical records) but can have periods of improvement and other times like now where I struggle to function.

Anyway, manager has offered support however this support benefits the business more than it benefits me (they have time deadlines on certain things, and my shift starts later so they take that part of my job off me which I wouldn’t be able to get done otherwise - purely due to having a later shift).

They deem this as providing adequate support and it’s unreasonable to expect anything more. I have a meeting with him and my union rep next week to discuss further.

I believe starting earlier (like everyone else) and having one aspect of my job shared (this is the part which is time sensitive and causes stress and pressure on me every day, as i need to get my other parts completed in less time than everyone else, so that i can do this part at the end) would help me manage my disabilities better. Manager has said thats not an option. I am the only employee of his who has two job roles combined. Everyone else either has one or the other and has the same hours as me (although we start at different times).

What is reasonable to request at the meeting?

Can i be dismissed there and then, or dismissed at all because of my conditions?
when it is well managed, i can cope with the role fine.

Am i allowed to leave work half way through the day, if i have a sick note? Or once i’m in, i need to stay in?

there have been no other performance issues and nothing relating to my conditions since i started there, until now. When i am well, i can do the job well.

I am currently signed off sick, as the previous request to adjustments was denied.

I am struggling to understand this. But there is no absolute right to any adjustment, so whether what you want is reasonable or not does depend on the circumstances. You must have discussed this with your union rep? But in the end, a reasonable adjustment isn't about what suits you - it must also meet the requirements of the business, so if they have time sensitive tasks that you can't do because they need to happen before you arrive in work, then it is fair to say that they will take those tasks off you and give them to others to do. So I am struggling to understand why you say that you actually don't want to do this work anyway, but want to start work earlier. But then you want to do this time sensitive thing at the end of your shift?

In respect of your other questions - no you cannot be dismissed because of your conditions, but you can be dismissed if you are unable to do your job and the adjustments available are not sufficient to enable that to happen. Having a disability doesn't mean that an employer must retain you if your cannot do the job required. If they let you go it would be down to you to prove that they had failed to make reasonable adjustments - in other words, you would need to show that the adjustment was reasonable and they should have made it and didn't.

I don't understand why you are asking if you can leave half way through the day if you have a sick note - if you are signed off work, surely you aren't in work anyway. But the answer is no, you cannot leave work half way through the day. If you are asking about a fit note that says you should have reduced hours, then that is an opinion - the employer doesn't have to agree to it and can say that you are either off sick or you are not. They have a right to say that, and you can't just decide that you will work part days, even if your doctor suggests it.

I am not sure if that answers your questions here because I have had to guess at what you mean / what you are describing in places.

What has your union rep said? They would be the best indicator of what is possible, I would have thought.

@Quveas thanks for your honesty.

My union rep is speaking with me later and again before the meeting.

to clarify, when i started the job i was doing the same role as everybody else (for months) and I was then moved to a later shift, with these added responsibilities. I have coped until now. The original job suited me much better and i was likely only put on the new job because nobody else wanted the responsibility or the late shift.

I have tried to go in every single day, despite the fit note. I have panic attacks (yes they are debilitating and cannot be controlled) but i still show up. I wondered about leaving midway through, as i often get to such a point where i cannot function as required for the job. This is expected to be temporary, though could last months.

At what point would they decide I am not fit for the role and dismiss me? If there could be a date in the not too distant future whereby I can manage my conditions and therefore work, can they dismiss me still?

As you can see I am extremely worried about losing my job (again, no other performing concerns or anything else except this episode of poor health).

I'm sorry but nobody can tell you the answers to those questions. It depends entirely on the circumstances and on the employer. In essence, regardless of what you originally did, you accepted the new terms with those hours and the added responsibilities, so this is now your job. That is the benchmark that you need to use - not what you used to do, what others do, or what others wanted or didn't want. An employer might be willing to vary that - but they do not have to unless it would be really easy to do, and it sounds like it may not be.

I am wondering if you've posted about this before because it sounds familiar, but the bottom line is that it is unreasonable to expect an employer to change other people's terms so that you can have different ones. So trying to force someone else to do the late shift because you can't / don't want to isn't reasonable and will never be. If people are willing to agree to that (which sounds unlikely) then that is fine, but the employer would always have the defence that this is your job and nobody else can do it or is expected to, and they won't force them to.

So someone has to do that late shift, it would seem and the only someone available is you because it is your job. Unless a compromise can be found, then yes - that could be grounds for dismissal. The employer can hardly employ someone in case you can't do your job, they'd need to employ someone to do your job; and if doing the job is important and you have too much time off work, then simply being off work sick may be grounds for a fair dismissal.

I'll be brutally honest - no way would I agree to someone leaving half way through the day whenever they couldn't manage the full day. That is the worst of all worlds for an employer, because they won't know if you will be in work to do your job or not on a day by day basis. That makes work planning impossible. And for that to be the case for the foreseeable future? I cannot see any grounds whatsever where, in law, an employer would be expected to accept that. And I don't think it's a reasonable ask. I'm usually fairly flexible with my own staff, our work can be flexible, and we are a large employer (which makes some difference) and I simply wouldn't agree to a term like that and I doubt many managers would - you either have a phased return with agreed hours (which an employer doesn't have to agree to), or drop your hours permanantly (which again they don't have to agree), or you work your hours, or you stay off sick. Erratic hours depending on how you feel isn't reasonable, even though I can appreciate why it might help you.

Nobody can tell you at what stage the employer might move to dismiss. There are too many variables - how long you have worked with them, how much they need the job doing, the size of the workforce, the likelihood of you recovering to a point that enables you to return to work and when they need that to be.... So if there is a date that you could say you would return full time, they might accept that, but it really depends on lots of things. And to be fair, I am not sure how you could promise that because with most conditions you can't foresee the future. Even physical conditions - severe arthritis, for example, is easier to guess how long a bad flare up would take to manage. But with mental ill health, I don't see that it would be as easy to guess because so many factors play into how that is managed and what triggers are in play. It could be days, weeks, months or even years.

But in the employers shoes, whilst I can hear what you want that you think would help me, you need to remember that they might care about you, but in the end they care more about the job being done. So there will always be more about the business need and not about your need. The best way of dealing with that is to think like they do - how do you make an offer that meets their need and that you can manage. If you can do that they are more likely to give you time. But that is just theory - without knowing the circumstances it may be genuinely impossible to give you much more than they have.