Salary negotiation - NHS to university

KStockHERO · 25/05/2023 10:59

Hi OP

Academic here. Congratulations on your new job 😍IME (as someone who employs people, as someone who negotiated my own salary bump, as someone who mentors new starters), salary negotiation is common but can't be pushed too far. Any negotiations need to be centred on how you meet or exceed the job or person specification. Appointments at universities are very closely rooted in the points listed in the job advert so negotiations need to be focused on them.

Can I push for the highest end based on current salary plus the additional skill set the job requires?
I'd say you're very unlikely to push them to the top of the grade. People at the top of grades aren't really those who're 'the best' at their current role.
Instead, they'll be people who've climbed there through annual increments.
Or people who're sitting there almost ready to jump to the next grade. It's very unlikely that you'd be able to go in at the top.
Yes, absolutely negotiate based on your current salary - you expect that to be matched and bettered. When it comes to them bettering the salary, as I said, you need to focus on why they should offer you more based on the points in the job advert. Why are you worth £2K or £3K or £4K more than the starting salary based on what they've asked for?

Should I mention the increased commute cost or will that be of no concern to them?
It'll be no concern to them, don't mention it.

Would it BU to mention that my shortage occupation means I can get a fully remote job on 40k whenever I like so I'm unwilling to take the uni role for less than 45?
Hmmm. Yes and no. They'll know about the shortage in your area (I assume) but it's worth reminding them. But I wouldn't be so forthright with asking for £45K (top of the grade). I would say something like "Given that I bring [from the job spec] and also given the shortage of qualified [your area], I'd be looking for a salary closer to the top of the grade." Use that as an opener, see what they say, then get pushy if you need to. You also need to decide whether your threats are actually true. You say you wouldn't take the job for less than £45K but is that true? If they said "We can start you off at £43K", would you walk away? What I mean is, don't go in too bolshy about your demands if you won't follow through on your threats to refuse the job.

I'm not sure what would be rude (or irrelevant) and what would be business like - all tips and advice gratefully appreciated, thanks!
Universities are a cradle of double-speak and bullshit diplomacy. Going in and saying "I won't accept less than £45K" isn't going to wash. And is going to start you off on the wrong foot with your new line manager. You need to go in a little more diplomatic and subtle, have a clear idea of what you want and massage your way to that.
Universities (much like the NHS I guess) have much less wiggle room than they used to when it comes to appointments. Appointments are made very very strictly tied to the job advert and person specification so you should use this as your basis for negotiation - as 'evidence' if you like of why you need a high starting salary.

The other thing to note is that if you did go in at the top of the grade, you'd be stuck there with no annual increments. So to get a salary increase from the top of the grade, you'd need to get promoted to the next grade.

Original poster

Theswiftsareback · 25/05/2023 11:08

KStockHERO · 25/05/2023 10:59

Hi OP

Academic here. Congratulations on your new job 😍IME (as someone who employs people, as someone who negotiated my own salary bump, as someone who mentors new starters), salary negotiation is common but can't be pushed too far. Any negotiations need to be centred on how you meet or exceed the job or person specification. Appointments at universities are very closely rooted in the points listed in the job advert so negotiations need to be focused on them.

Can I push for the highest end based on current salary plus the additional skill set the job requires?
I'd say you're very unlikely to push them to the top of the grade. People at the top of grades aren't really those who're 'the best' at their current role.
Instead, they'll be people who've climbed there through annual increments.
Or people who're sitting there almost ready to jump to the next grade. It's very unlikely that you'd be able to go in at the top.
Yes, absolutely negotiate based on your current salary - you expect that to be matched and bettered. When it comes to them bettering the salary, as I said, you need to focus on why they should offer you more based on the points in the job advert. Why are you worth £2K or £3K or £4K more than the starting salary based on what they've asked for?

Should I mention the increased commute cost or will that be of no concern to them?
It'll be no concern to them, don't mention it.

Would it BU to mention that my shortage occupation means I can get a fully remote job on 40k whenever I like so I'm unwilling to take the uni role for less than 45?
Hmmm. Yes and no. They'll know about the shortage in your area (I assume) but it's worth reminding them. But I wouldn't be so forthright with asking for £45K (top of the grade). I would say something like "Given that I bring [from the job spec] and also given the shortage of qualified [your area], I'd be looking for a salary closer to the top of the grade." Use that as an opener, see what they say, then get pushy if you need to. You also need to decide whether your threats are actually true. You say you wouldn't take the job for less than £45K but is that true? If they said "We can start you off at £43K", would you walk away? What I mean is, don't go in too bolshy about your demands if you won't follow through on your threats to refuse the job.

I'm not sure what would be rude (or irrelevant) and what would be business like - all tips and advice gratefully appreciated, thanks!
Universities are a cradle of double-speak and bullshit diplomacy. Going in and saying "I won't accept less than £45K" isn't going to wash. And is going to start you off on the wrong foot with your new line manager. You need to go in a little more diplomatic and subtle, have a clear idea of what you want and massage your way to that.
Universities (much like the NHS I guess) have much less wiggle room than they used to when it comes to appointments. Appointments are made very very strictly tied to the job advert and person specification so you should use this as your basis for negotiation - as 'evidence' if you like of why you need a high starting salary.

The other thing to note is that if you did go in at the top of the grade, you'd be stuck there with no annual increments. So to get a salary increase from the top of the grade, you'd need to get promoted to the next grade.

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, that's all fantastically helpful. I really appreciate it and hope you have a lovely day :-)

OP posts:

gogohmm · 25/05/2023 11:28

The bottom line is yes you can negotiate, but if you are at the top of your spine you don't get annual increments (you will get the inflationary uplift if applicable). If you believe you are worth more you need to try to be considered for a higher grade position.

They will not be interested in your commute costs and may have policies on living close to the institution (we had to live within 30 minutes)

Charlieiscool · 25/05/2023 11:41

Will you be transferring your NHS pension to USS? Make sure the early retirement and other conditions are as good.

Lcb123 · 25/05/2023 11:43

I moved from a London university to a university in south east. I negotiated to one spine point below the top of the advertised band, based my London salary. Look at the university’s website as the actual salaries / spine points should be there somewhere. I’d personally focus on your current salary, skills and experience rather than the commute cost, as that’s your choice.

Charlieiscool · 25/05/2023 11:44

I mean, are they both offering final salary pensions? Will there be actuarial loss if you retire early? Don’t jump in without looking at that. Regarding your salary, be clear in your mind about what would work for you and you should jump up a bit and cover your commuting costs. If they want you they will agree as long as you don’t go too far.

SheilaFentiman · 25/05/2023 11:52

I echo @KStockHERO

HR want us always to start a person at the bottom of the salary range. So that’s your first obstacle.

It may be the same in the NHS, but the salary grade will include a number of spine points and you will have to be paid one of those. There’s no gradient - it will be a choice between £41614 and £43267 (numbers made up) - no option for £42500, say.

SheilaFentiman · 25/05/2023 11:53

The USS pension scheme is a lot worse than it used to be - I would consider comparing accrual rates, DB caps etc with the NHS deal

Drcrafty · 25/05/2023 12:17

I too moved from public sector to academia a few years ago, I was fully expecting to start at the bottom of my pay band which would have been a net reduction of several thousand pounds - however HR had a policy at my Uni of matching to the nearest spine point on the relevant scale, as a recognition of external skills. As it happened, the nearest spine point for me was actually a little more than my previous salary, though it did mean I was at the top of the band. I think each Uni must have their own approach.

NurseNeerDoWell · 25/05/2023 12:21

I am a HCP who had a stint working at university and remaining with the NHS pension scheme was an option. I was in a role that used agenda for change banding for roles where HCP quake were essential and was able to go in at top of band 6 because I’d previously been band 7 in NHS.

Original poster

Theswiftsareback · 25/05/2023 19:52

Thank you, everyone. Loads of really good points for me to consider here!

OP posts: