Should travel to another office be part of my work day?

[Hotwaterbottle8]

My department have undergone a re-jig and I am now expected to travel 4 hours (so an 8 hour round trip) to a different office regularly-ish. It will be once a quarter for a department meeting and then as and when needed for client meetings.. which could easily be once or twice a month.

My question is, should I expect travel time to count as part of my work day or not? I do a timesheet so have to record my day. I could do some work on a train but not much as I work with personal information.

Work will pay for travel and accommodation (if needed), but I don’t really want to stay overnight as I have a cat and dog. I also hope to have children in the next few years and I just don’t think overnight stays are very practical.

At a previous employer we were allowed to include travel time as part of our day but the furthest away I ever went was 2 hours so a bit different!

That sounds a long day…. Do you have a contract? If yes hopefully it will detail travel expectations.

I found the travel policy and it’s clear that travel to another office needs to be outside of the working day.

Another reason to add to my list of why I hate this job 😂

Yes. It’s a change dictated by your employer and outside normal commuting time/distance.

I would question that with ACAS and HR because “another office” that is 4hrs away is clearly an unenforceable term to be considered unpaid travel time.

Yes absolutely! Can u refuse if they don't let u. U say it's a recent change so wasn't part of the job u originally accepted.

I was always given back travel time. So if I wasn't going to stay over, sometimes it would be leave house at 7am or earlier and not get back until 7/8pm. I would get the full hours less my lunch break. So let's say 11hrs. My usual work day is 7.5 so anything above that I get to take back as flexi time.

@shelbabab
Is correct that if they have changed your employment contract to add this new office to it, you can refuse the change/to go to the office and if they then sack you that is constructive dismissal which is a type of unfair dismissal.

Relocation of that distance would normally indicate a redundancy option.

Certainly requires a contract change, as I imagine your current contract specifies your location of work.

Be careful with the constructive unfair dismissal advice upthread. You would have grounds as your employer is:

"making unreasonable changes to working patterns or place of work without agreement"

You need to have attempted to informally and formally negotiate with your employer and have no choice to resign if resolution cannot be agreed.

Constructive unfair dismissal is a tricky one. Make sure you follow process.

Forgot to add: you need to raise the issue as a grievance (forgotten key part of process myself).

I did originally start at the office 4 hours away so that office is still on my contract. I’ve been meaning to have it updated for a while as I know it’s important but I don’t know who to ask!

We were told about a year ago that nobody would ever be expected to be in the office - this was a big part of my reason for moving as nobody was going into the office and I was desperately lonely, so moved home.

If they sack you that is a dismissal,possibly an unfair dismissal,but not constructive dismissal

I’ve also only been at this firm since Feb 2022, so they can still get rid of me for any reason.

Yes it would be constructive dismissal

What constructive dismissal isAn employee can make a constructive dismissal claim if they resign because they think their employer has seriously breached their employment contract. Examples could include:

• regularly not being paid the agreed amount without a good reason
• being bullied or discriminated against
• raising a grievance that the employer refuses to look into
• making unreasonable changes to working patterns or place of work without agreement

https://www.acas.org.uk/dismissals/constructive-dismissal

@Hotwaterbottle8 Custom and Practice, an implied contractual change,is your friend.

Imagine your contract doesn't state you can have a mid-morning break, but you've been having one known to everyone, without comment by your employer. Then they decide nope, no breaks. They'd need to consult on what's become change and practice before eliminating the break.

The onus is on the employer, not the employee, to ensure contracts are updated appropriately.

Your update makes it a very different situation. If that office is on your contract and you started there then you are lucky they are paying travel. Legally you should be paying tax on your travel claimed as it’s to your own place of work.

I did originally start at the office 4 hours away so that office is still on my contract.

Yeah, this completely changes everything. You have to go on your own time and they don’t owe you for travel or accommodation.

They're expecting you to travel to place named on your contract?

How long have you been working for them? Was it February 2022? How long have you not been travelling to the place stated on your contract?

I recently changed my job role and my new office was 4 hours away. I negotiate that I would be based at our local regional office. This meant that my travel costs and time would be paid for. I would never have taken the job if the head office was stated on my contract, I wasn't willing to use my money and time for the company.

It sounds as though the OP is being reluctant to pay for what is essentially their commute.

This is the timeline (sorry for length) -

I started in Feb 2022 in office A. At that time offices A and B were being run together and C was completely separate.

Was told nobody would ever be made to come in to an office in May (? Or June) 2022. The firm actively hires remote workers throughout 2022. I split my time between places A and C as I’m from C - nobody even notices.

The offices and client lists merge in October 2022 - but employees in C still looked after local clients. There is a mass exodus from office C following this (who aren’t replaced) and I know there is scope for me to take on work.

I asked my employer if I could move to office C permanently in Feb 2023. I am told yes “because we can’t exactly say no”.

Told I can keep my previous client allocation and do a handover once I move. I try to raise specifics but am brushed off each time - obviously because they knew the re-jig was coming.

End of March/early April everything changes. My clients are now all over the country. We are all told that everyone (even remote workers) will now have to come in to office A from time to time “but we will pay for travel if it’s not your nearest office”. I say fine as I’ve been coming up and down most weekends anyway.

I moved to C properly 2 weeks ago. I haven’t yet had to travel down to A or B.

So it’s murky I guess. In some ways everyone essentially has 3 offices, because everyone is expected to travel between them as and when. But my nearest office is C and work have recognised that 🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s the time that’s more important to me than the money.

Bit of a drip feed

Dp regularly travels outside of the work day, he'll take a few hours a year early finishes in lieu, if he travels on a weekend he gets time off

@Hotwaterbottle8 I asked my employer if I could move to office C permanently in Feb 2023. I am told yes “because we can’t exactly say no”.

Do you have this is writing? If so, they agreed a contractual change to your permanent place of work. You don’t need a full new contract just written confirmation your office changed to office C.

It ultimately depends on whether you have your change of office in writing? If not then I think legally it’s fair to expect you there. What you agree morally is between you and the company.

I think there will be loads of cases like this coming from ad hoc arrangements made over the last few covid years and now company’s are starting to back track to offices.

If it's in your contract where your base is then travel time to where the meeting is should be TOIL.