Mom vs career-woman - advice needed

[sonta8]

Heyy,

All moms here who are working in highly competitive and intense jobs - how did you manage the change from career women to career women + mom?

We are trying to conceive now. I find it hard to reconcile that I am adding another priority in life apart from my career goals. It’s quite scary. I am worried I won’t be as ambitious anymore or will resent having a baby if my career starts suffering. I do really want to have a baby. But, can I still dream of being super successful in my career or I am making a choice to let that dream go?

It would be great to hear your experiences. How did you manage it all?

Contrary to a PP, my mother was a SAHM and I knew always that this would not be me.
The difficult years are middle management years. Once you get beyond it, it’s easier as you can delegate, have more control over your diary and attend school plays!

I have 5 kids, my youngest is now 8. I am earning a 6 figure salary and am at the top of my game (late 40s).
My priorities didn’t change, but my workload grew. My priority for my children was not having to worry about feeding them, being able to buy them a new bike if they needed it without changing a budget and showing them that women’s place is in the boardroom.

You can do it. I did a large chunk of my work history as a single parent. A good childminder is worth their weight in gold. A good partner even more so, but allow for partners to be a disappointment and expect the worst, be pleasantly surprised when they do what they say they will (and should).

Maybe you need to look outside your immediate surroundings. Most of the women I know in my field became far more ambitious and productive since having children. Part of it is, I think, having stricter limits on worktime because of childcare, and the knowledge that you're now paying for work time -- this makes many people 'work smarter' in the more compressed times.

Don't have children with a misogynist, have clear, detailed conversations about both your expectations about combining work with parenting (what kind of childcare? how will you cover periods when childcare is suddenly unavailable/child sickness? Are there possibilities for flexible working or compressed hours that might suit you both?) and don't for a moment let it be assumed by anyone in your vicinity that you're somehow now a second-class citizen in the workplace because you are a working parent.

And your husband needs to be a damn sight more than 'super-supportive' -- he needs to think, BEFORE you conceive, about exactly how he is going to combine childminder drop-offs and pick-ups (or whatever type of childcare you use) with his work schedule, how he will cover child sickness, being called out of an important meeting because your baby/child has just become unwell etc etc. These things are non-negotiable. They are his job as a parent.

Depends what you do and who you do it for. I applied for, and got, a promotion whilst on mat leave and have been able to go back to work doing that role part-time. Previously as well we had a new CEO who got that role whilst on mat leave and the company was happy to wait for her leave to be finished to start the role.

If you want to do it, you have a supportive husband and the company is right, it's absolutely possible. Without those things, I've seen it in the friends lives, it can seem impossible.

I'll just add too, you will never resent the child. Ever. You'll stop working for you, it'll be for them.

My career has soared since having DS. In fact, I'm more career focussed than ever. Things that I think are important are:

• Ensuring that both our careers are valued equally. My DH doesn't get a free pass just because he earns more.
• We share school drop offs/pick ups, sick days, etc
• Flexible working for both of us not just me. DH needs to be clear at work that he has childcare responsibilities - it can be more challenging for men to push back on this because society expects women to pickup the slack

Yep.

@sunshineandtea this is my own experience, though I don’t know about anyone else. I resented having a career-focused mother and I think that is part of the reason why I have never been interested in a career, just working to get by and now I have young children I am lucky to be able to stay at home looking after them. OP, obviously you need to think of finances and your own satisfaction but you also need to consider the needs of your children.

Also, be realistic. Younger kids are easier to ‘manage’. End to end childcare. Once at school, their days are shorter and they have school holidays.

The older they get, the more driving around they need. Three nights a week I’m in various car parks picking up and dropping off. often I’ve no choice but to kill the 90 minutes or so.
The more kids the less post-work feet up time. Also, your income requirements go up. energy levels go down.

I didn’t expect for my husband, now ex to decide to simply give up work at 40. Who thought I needed to factor this in?!

I didn’t expect to be diagnosed with a chronic illness. Then there’s the menopause. The gifts keep coming!

For me, work gives me a purpose. Also, if I’d not continued working snd built my career, my kids would have been buggered. They 100% rely on me financially and 99% physically and emotionally.

My career keeps me, me and not someone’s mum. Not someone actually concerned about school cake stalls. It keeps me learning about the world, through integrating with colleagues.

We’re just going through the last GCSEs process. To help your kids with these you need to have an active mind. I’d not have this as a stay at home mum. I, personally, would have rotted. I’d also wonder why I went through the efforts to do well at school and uni to then while away my days. There are lots of mums where I live who had the best educations money can buy, doors opened to good career opportunities and now the reason for being is to raise “warrior, pioneer” daughter/women. To repeat the cycle?!

You’re in the for the long haul.

It was the opposite for me. I grew up with a SAHM and knew I didn't want that to be me so went back to work full time.

Absolutely the same here. My mother, through a combination of circumstances and sexism, wasted her potential as a SAHM. I don't actually think being a SAHP suits many people at all long term, though obviously many people find themselves being one for short periods out of necessity. Quite apart from loving what I do, I made damn sure I wasn't going to be like my mother. It's perfectly possible to combine being a good enough parent with a career you love.

My mother was the same. She was smart and motivated and then had 4 kids in short succession with a very traditional man. She ended up setting up her own business once we’d grown up but had been out of the workforce for a long time before then. She’s so much happier being out in the world. She doesn’t resent the time spent at home but she would have been so much happier if she’d been able to do something out of the home. And with 4 kids the reality is we were left to ourselves a lot of the time anyway - I was the eldest and was often letting myself into an empty house as she was out dropping off one of my sibs / doing pick ups etc.

OP it really is about your mindset. It is possible if you want to do it. Just ignore all the people who purse their lips and ask stupid questions like “why did you have kids if you didn’t want to spend any time with them?” Those questions are about them, not you.

I work in law and in my experience, there are lots of woman in the industry. Arguably get ahead more quickly but I know plenty of female partners and legal directors who've been promoted post baby.

The logistics of having a child and working long hours is much more difficult to manage unless you have family support or a nanny. A nanny isn't something I wanted to consider so between me and DP we try and make it work. It means we work long hours but at odd times.

*arguably men get ahead is what I meant to say.

I’m a senior lawyer in a corporate firm. The juggle is hard but I actually feel like being a mum has made me better at my job. When you’ve had a tiny little newborn all hooked up to ventilators in the NICU it sure gives you perspective on what’s really important/ urgent /an emergency. Also I wouldn’t say I was a time waster before but I am much more efficient these days because I know I have to leave for nursery pick up (on the days my OH can’t). You just have to be focused on what your objectives are and work towards them - but also be clear with yourself and your employer as to what your boundaries are. For me a I have a great partner and we really do split everything (except cooking - he does most of that!)

I am just about to start a new job and told them at the interview that my OH often works away and when he does I will have to leave at 5 sharp every day (I’ll log back on after bedtime when I have to but I don’t want to be doing that everyday)) and if that was going to be a problem I’d rather they just told me there and then.

TBH I think working makes me a better mum too. I love my DD and I love spending time with her. But spending all day every day singing songs and dealing with the torrent of chaos she leaves in her wake is not for me! I am very strict though about having time with her before and after nursery when the work phone is ignored and I sort out bags/clothes/breakfast/evening snacks for the next day every evening so that we can spend quality time with together.

It's tricky. I'm still in the full time childcare stage, so I haven't had the tricky school drop offs and pick ups etc. However we both have big careers on six figures, and we split everything - pick ups, drop offs, sick leave etc. A lot is arranging our diaries and meetings etc to work around each other.

I'm still ambitious, I got a 50% pay rise after mat leave. However there is a limit to what I want to do now. I only accept evening invitations if it's an important client. I only go away on trips where it's really necessary, rather than saying yes to everything like before. If it's me picking up from nursery, I have to leave at 5pm on the dot so I don't pitch in for extra work unless it's really urgent. I'm still meeting my income targets but I have had to (and want to) take a back seat on the other stuff. I have two hours with him in the morning before daycare, and whoever does the pick up has two hours with him in the evening with the other getting in before bedtime. I wouldn't want less, neither would my partner, so I'm prepared to compromise.

Best thing we did I think was Shared Parental Leave. Both got full pay for our leave, but more importantly it set an expectation that parenting would be shared. We both loved our leave. It also meant less time out of the office for either of us. I still exclusively breastfed for a year, and he is really attached to me. Nursery call either of us interchangeably if something happens or he gets ill.

My priorities have changed, but I still want to maintain my career, and that hasn't changed

you need an excellent nanny. Nursery will not work. Your nanny will do a lot of the home tasks (baby bed linen / laundry/ doctors appointments/ buying birthday presents to take to parties etc) which doesn’t happen with a nursery, and with the kind of jobs you describe, taking time off for every doctor appointment (there are many of them for little kids) just isn’t feasible. One of you will need to leave home late enough to do the nanny handover somewhere around 7.30/ 8 & the other will do pickup- split those days so one of you isn’t always in late / leaving early.

@SaladRooney why do you think it was “wasting her potential” for your mother to stay at home and look after her children? I think it is a very important and highly skilled job.

Sorry OP first thing i am going to take you to task for your thread title. It can be both it need not be either or.
Switch Mum for dad and think how bloody ridiculous the question is.

Outside of that? Try to think realistically about how you and your partner can make adjustments to your (working) lives so that you can accommodate first a baby, then a small child and so on. Babies are relatively time-intensive but fairly easy compared to toddlers and so on. Be realistic. Make sure your partner is fully on board that you will not be the only one making sacrifices. Be realistic about, say, both dropping a day, him taking proper paternity leave (not just a 2 week jolly while you are post partum - proper parental leave when you go back to work) and so on.

It is hard. It can feel insurmountable. But in the end with your career not stalled, your pension not non-existant and with an empty nest you have nothing to do... it will be worth it.

And be prepared for both of you to constantly re-evaluate where and what the priorities are. Sometimes you may want to concentrate a bit more on your career - will he step up and be supportive? Can you promise, and mean it, to do the same for him?

The motherhood penalty strikes at a lot of workplaces. Pushback on it

I feel the same way. My mum wasted her potential too, it's all about sexism with her as she is very traditional.

She thinks I should be a SAHM too.

Also: buy in the things you can't manage (or you can't manage well enough) or don't want to manage. Cleaning, washing/ironing, gardening etc etc.

Above all: make sure that your DH knows you will not be doing more than half the lifework. Make sure he knows what needs to be done to keep your lives running.

Also: sometimes things are shit, things don't work, you eat beige food for a week. It is fine.

Thanks @SpringBunnies ! That's super helpful. Will take a look at options in my area.

Thanks @SouthLondonMum22 ! What were the timings for the full-time nursery? I assume before you go to office and then pick them up on the way back?

Play the long game, and don't just focus on immediate promotions/opportunties.
Over the course of the next 30 or 35 years, you can build the career you want. The 3/4/5/6 years where you have very small kids that are time intensive, draining your sleep & energy, are only a small part of the whole equation, so its ok to be not 100% firing on all cylinders in work during that time.
There are many years left to continue working on what you like. Its not a race - you don't get eliminated because you haven't reached a certain level by a certain age.

Thanks @SaladRooney ! That's great to hear!

That's awesome! I will keep this in mind.