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Original poster

Disciplinary hearing

17 replies

Bluemuf · 17/05/2023 20:01

What would you expect to happen if:

An allegation of a terrible thing has happened. Not illegal or dangerous, but falls well short of the professional standards expect (school).
Staff member in question swears blind it didn't happen, it could never happen, just not something they would do
The only other people present are a very challenging student and another member of staff. Both those people have independently given statements which are very similar and corroborate that the events did happen. Original complaint was brought by the student.

Would the school be able to prove a case based on this? Sorry, necessarily vague, but I'm thinking one word against the other, but in this case it's two words, one of which could be said to be unreliable.

OP posts:

Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway · 17/05/2023 20:03

Teachers have been fired just in the word of unreliable, trouble causing students.

With a student and another adult both saying you did this then you best start looking for a new job.

Moonshine86 · 17/05/2023 20:04

Are you in a union?

GoodChat · 17/05/2023 20:05

It's unlikely the staff member would independently corroborate the allegations if they weren't true.

I'd suggest the teacher finds another job quickly, before they're fired.

Original poster

Bluemuf · 17/05/2023 20:05

Moonshine86 · 17/05/2023 20:04

Are you in a union?

It's not me. Staff member concerned is saying no representation needed becuase he didn't do it......I know....

OP posts:

romdowa · 17/05/2023 20:09

Unless the member of staff who witnessed the incident is also challenging, then the offending staff member can swear it didn't happen until the cows come home. Two witnessed with basically the same story proves otherwise.

HermioneWeasley · 17/05/2023 20:09

Did the two witnesses have a chance to collude on their evidence? That would be the only thing that would undermine two very similar accounts

Mrswalliams1 · 17/05/2023 20:10

It would need to be thoroughly investigated including cctv if available. It's really difficult without details but as an HR Advisor in a school it would likely be heard in a disciplinary hearing and it'd be up to the panel to decide. Based on what you are saying if you and 2 witnesses statement corroborate unless they have evidence to prove otherwise, it'll likely come to nothing.

Original poster

Bluemuf · 17/05/2023 20:14

HermioneWeasley · 17/05/2023 20:09

Did the two witnesses have a chance to collude on their evidence? That would be the only thing that would undermine two very similar accounts

I believe the staff member heard the initial allegation ie she was the first person student complained to, but they won't have spent time getting their story straight.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bluemuf · 17/05/2023 20:15

Mrswalliams1 · 17/05/2023 20:10

I believe the investigation has concluded and these three statements are the evidence.

OP posts:

Mrswalliams1 · 17/05/2023 20:15

Sorry misread. It's not likely yo have a good outcome unless there's proof otherwise

MrsHamlet · 17/05/2023 20:17

Bluemuf · 17/05/2023 20:05

It's not me. Staff member concerned is saying no representation needed becuase he didn't do it......I know....

Show quote history

Oh dear!
It might not lead to dismissal but it'll certainly sit on their record for a while. They really need casework assistance.

functionoverform · 17/05/2023 20:18

Unfortunately yes, this would be deemed enough, as in civil cases aka Misconduct cases, it is on the balance of probability.

As long as it isn't safeguarding, potentially looking at written warning and/ or additional training needs being identified / spoken to about professional conduct for a Misconduct disciplinary.

Gross misconduct can be sackable.

anon12093 · 17/05/2023 20:46

Why is the "challenging" student not to be believed? A staff member corroborated their version of events.

Staff member who is under disciplinary action has done something whether they want to believe they have or not.

SourDoughToast · 17/05/2023 21:32

Employment law is not like criminal law where things have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

In employment matters, we work on the principle of reasonable belief ie given all the evidence i have, is it my reasonable belief that these allegations are true?

So if the employee says they didn't do something but 2 witnesses- who have no reason to collude- say it did and their accounts are similar, the hearing manager may well find the allegations to be true.

Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway · 18/05/2023 08:03

Wait, did the other staff member actually witness what happened, which is what your OP said, or did they just hear what happened from the student as your later post says that they were the first person the student spoke to?

Were they a witness who saw it or just the first teacher the student told?

MichelleScarn · 18/05/2023 08:11

Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway · 18/05/2023 08:03

Were they a witness who saw it or just the first teacher the student told?

This. It doesn't sound like the 'corroborating' staff member was there? I believe the staff member heard the initial allegation ie she was the first person student complained to, but they won't have spent time getting their story straight.
What's the relationship like between the 2 staff, sounds like he's unpopular?

ItsBeenOneWeek · 18/05/2023 08:20

This isn’t for idle speculation on MN. The headteacher will (should) be being advised by HR around following due process. It will be their decision on what the outcome will be - within the confines of the process and employment law. They are not required to reach criminal court standards of evidence but balance of probability.

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