Asked to increase part time hours

[GGee123]

I currently work part time 3 days a week managing a team of 11. I have been in the role for 14 years, working part time for 8 of those years. I easily do the equivalent of a full time role, working long days on the days I work, occasionally working on my days off, continually monitoring emails & have never had, to my knowledge, a situation where my working part time has negatively impacted my team who are all performing well.

We have recently got a new Director who wants me to increase my hours, she has said ideally 5 days but would settle for 4. I really do not want to increase my hours, I would struggle with existing commitments & am fortunate I don't need the extra money. Her argument is there needs to be cover at all times & has said she'll initiate a consultation. I'm possibly prepared to work a 4th day til school pick up time but don't believe this will be acceptable.

I've spoken to Acas so I know the facts, but I'm a bit lost on exactly how I should approach this, what I should say or what arguments I should make to get the best outcome. Or whether I should just suck it up & be grateful I have a job!

This!!!!

No wonder women in the workplace get paid less / less likely to ask for the hours they want.

OP says I don't want to change my established working pattern of 8 years - most of mumsnet instead of supporting her to get what she wants and as a back up encouraging her to consider getting paid for what she actually works jump straight to backing the manager and telling OP she has to do it or look for another job!

No she doesn't, at least not without a lengthy process that the employer may not succeed in.

@febrezeme of course it’s possible to manage a team whilst working 3dpw. I do it. It wouldn’t be possible if the team needs micro managing but that shouldn’t be the manager’s role. As long as we have regular communication and clear task assignments and deadlines and the staff are competent then there’s no need to be constantly checking up on team. They all know they can contact me on days off if they need my input but it’s not regularly required and we work well together and get the job done.

Like the OP, I work more than contractual hours (as do most of my colleagues, eg they end up working over weekends) and at busy times work significantly more but having 3dpw contract gives me the flexibility I want, so I can choose when to do that work around rest of my life. I’ve been offered longer hours but always turned it down. Stick to your guns OP or do that fourth day term time only in school
hours if actually the extra pay for it is in reflection better for you than the greater flexibility.

I worked in team with 2 p/t managers for a few years. One did 3 days, the other other 4, so there was overlap, and the deputy carried a (small) caseload as well.

They had complementary skill sets, and different management styles. It worked really well.

i have done 3 days and honestly found it much more stressful than 4. Partly because I did always feel like I was having to check in on my non-working days, had to cram so many meetings into the 3 days it was impossible to do anything that was actual work so that spilled into the evenings. There is every chance your director is trying to support you having seen you do long hours, working on nwds etc (although the bit about the company suggesting no part-timers is more worrying). Absence does tend to have an impact on the team unless there is a clear deputy as well. As much as you might not want it to, it probably does affect them.

You have to think about how much you want to dig in and what you might be prepared to compromise on.

No wonder women in the workplace get paid less / less likely to ask for the hours they want

but the OP has said I easily do the equivalent of a full time role, working long days on the days I work, occasionally working on my days off, continually monitoring emails she’s effectively doing two days unpaid every week so nearly 100 days each year, but says she has worked part time for 8 years which she hasn’t and I imagine an audit of company emails and systems would show that. It is in fact this type of working woman that makes it more difficult for other women because she’s not being honest with her employer about what work is done outside of her contracted hours. Luckily she doesn’t need the money but not everyone is so fortunate.

@AliMonkey “of course it’s possible to manage a team on 3dpw” and “my team know they can contact me on my days off” are fairly contradictory statements though? If the first is true then there is no need for the second.

@GGee123 as PP have said, by consistently working outside of your contracted hours you’ve effectively proved the job can’t be done in 3 days unfortunately. Either work 4 (and get paid for the actual work you do!) or engage with the company to come up with a viable solution for coverage on you non working days - which would hopefully mean you can stop working over so much on the days you do work.

I’m very wary of part timers who claim they do the same as a full timer yet wouldn’t want to actually work full time as it would affect the quality of their life. It’s simply not true that you’re doing the work of a full timer.

If I was your director and a manager of 11 only worked three days I’d be having the same conversation. What do your reports do when they need an answer on one of your days off?

Go and apply for another part time job. This one is no longer suitable for your purpose.

As @TallerThanAverage Says

the OP has said I easily do the equivalent of a full time role, working long days on the days I work, occasionally working on my days off, continually monitoring emails she’s effectively doing two days unpaid every week so nearly 100 days each year, but says she has worked part time for 8 years which she hasn’t

She has not said how many hours she works (cynic in me thinks maybe to get people talking @GGee123 ) so this is all academic. We have no idea why op doesn't want to get paid for the hours she does?

Maybe op isn't as good at her her job as she thinks she is if it's taking more hours than it should be taking?

Maybe company can't see why she is doing so many extra hours as the tasks should be done in the time she is allocated?

Maybe company dont know she is doing so many extra hours as the tasks should be done in the time she is allocated? And they need more?

I manage a large team part time (3 days spread over 4). Like OP I am effectively ‘on call’ all the time but it still means I get a lot more time with my kids. Totally understand where you are coming from op. I have the ‘deputy who escalates’ option that someone suggested above and yes they very much want my job. That in itself can be stressful.

increases to 4 days per week I have 3 days a week off (156 days a year). Plus I get, for example, another 28 days off paid leave, plus I get 8 bank Holidays a year (I'm making assumptions here obviously). So that's a total of 192 days off per year, or, more than half of the days in a year that I don't work

I'm not sure on your maths here
If I work 4 days a week, I get 3 days each week I don't work, then I get 80% of 28 statutory minimum days, 22.4 days which works out as 178.4 against 132 non working days on a 5 day week worker

''@Namechange10101010

This!!!!

No wonder women in the workplace get paid less / less likely to ask for the hours they want.

OP says I don't want to change my established working pattern of 8 years - most of mumsnet instead of supporting her to get what she wants and as a back up encouraging her to consider getting paid for what she actually works jump straight to backing the manager and telling OP she has to do it or look for another job!

No she doesn't, at least not without a lengthy process that the employer may not succeed in.''

So true!

I despair at how many women on this forum (as I assume it is mostly women posting) will always defend management by default when someone dares to consider that they want to work part-time, flexibly or from home.

It is truly bizarre.

Flexibly/part-time/jobshare/home working are all great ways for women with children and caring responsibilities to continue to work. Or for anyone who has a disability/health condition.

We should be championing these work patterns rather thinking that the only way to work is the arbitrary 9 to 5, every day with your bum glued to your office desk. A rigid pattern which really was made by and for men with no caring responsibilities.

Is it jealousy towards the other woman because she can afford to work part-time? is it martyrdom complex? I really don't get it but it really saddens me....

The UK has low productivity and it seems a recruitment crisis in many sectors. so the way we work does not seem to deliver great results and it would be beneficial to embrace different patterns of work to help address that.

Yet here we are with people trying to imply that any woman who wants to continue to work part-time must be in the wrong...

Depressing as hell.

From your description you are actually working compressed time, not part time - you are working full time hours over fewer days. How is your working time recorded? Do you have a record of your hours actually worked? If you do, sit down with your boss and Union rep and explain your working pattern. If you are not recording the extra hours somewhere it may not be visible to the new director. Explain that currently the company currently has a full time employee at a 40% discount. Changing your number of days would not change your number of hours. If there is more work than their current full time employee (you) can handle then they need a second employee not more hours for the existing employee. Also if the current project management systems do not support sharing knowledge in a way that would support this then that is a system problem not a you problem - it is extremely bad practice to have a single point of failure in managing any project. If you dropped dead tonight, as things stand, multiple complex projects would be scuppered.

I would definitely be adding looking for a new job that fits your requirements to my to do list while all this is in play.

I've not read all the replies so sorry if this has been raised already, but I'd contact the free Pregnant Then Screwed advice line if I were you. A push to get all employees working full time disproportionately impacts women as they are more likely to have caring responsibilities, and the stance could be considered discrimination. PTS will give you more tailored/partial advice than Acas. Good luck!

It's tricky as yes you should be able to carry in as you are. But the reality is that conflict like this rarely turns out well, and this new director might be empowered to restructure & then you are out. Well paid PT roles at senior level are virtually impossible to find, you only get into them with tenure. Is there any compromise to be found, shorter hours across 4 days, maybe with Wednesdays off so split the week in half. I'd try to offer some kind of compromise anyway because ultimately you can rail against what seems unfair, but this person has been hired for a reason & this might be one of them.

Unless you'd like a redundancy payout. In which case sit tight,

I agree with this.

From a manager perspective - who looks after your team on the days you don’t work? Although you get your work done in time, is their work delayed because they have to wait for your approval etc. Also if they have absences, HR questions, general queries - does another manager have to answer them?

The first paragraph in your OP sums it up in a nutshell really. You already work longer hours than you are paid for.

Tell them you’ll work more hours but compressed hours over three days. Carry on doing what you’re doing and get paid more. Win, win.

As a woman who has worked part time for 23 years I have no problem with anyone wanting to work part time when the position warrants it. The OP by her own admission is contracted three days part time so presumably up to 25 hours but is working full time to complete what is expected. Therefore she’s either inefficient or as her boss suggests the job requires more hours to complete than is currently worked. The OP can’t see that the proposed change is to benefit her and her team and her employer want to have the correct hours apportioned to the job. Everyone saying don’t budge, stand your ground are giving bad advice as an internal check of whatever systems are used and the OPs emails will give an indication of the hours she is working which her employer could use to justify their position. She will be hoisted by her own petard.

But you have already demonstrated ypu can't do thr job in the part time hours as you always work more...

Some people work compressed hours. Like they do 36 hours but as 3 x 12 hour days. Could you offer to do that and submit the hours you’re already working when you include all the extras? And as for her argument cover is needed at all times, it sounds like you’re on call on the phone and have a highly trained, responsive staff anyway. Maybe you need to figure out how to stand your ground without her losing face, and compressed hours and on call arrangements could be suggested. With that much experience that would surely struggle to replace you. Or if it’s a personality thing, does she just need to like you? Can you find a hobby in common, ask her advice, help her out somehow, get her drunk?!

I think you have to show how much extra work you ARE doing and say that if you increase 'visible' in work hours, he does realise you'll have to decrease your invisible 'not in work' hours that you already do to cover the job completely.

Alternatively log how much out of hours work you ARE doing and be pleased /embrace the fact you'll now get paid for it.

I felt the same as you and clung onto my day off for ages. But actually I now work 9 30-2 30 on a Friday and the rest of the week is much easier, plus I'm getting paid for the hours I was doing on a Wednesday evening or whatever.

PP are right, if you're working 37 hours, you are proving that your contracted 24 is not enough. I absolutely appreciate you valuing the flexibility over the money but I think there is a balance to be struck, and if you do an additional 6 hours on a Thursday (and get paid for them!) it might actually make your life easier despite losing the day off.

In my experience of working Fridays nothing actually happens so I wouldn't worry about keeping that day off!

I think you're crazy to work for free....

Why work full time hours and only get paid 0.7 or whatever??