Progression into SCS - hit a ceiling...?

[Robat]

Hi all

I've been in a really frustrating situation for a while now. I've done 3.5 yrs now as a G6 and just can't get an SCS1 job - despite now having a 1:1 ratio of application to interview.

I've done seven SCS1 interviews (many more applications) and ended up on seven reserve lists, all of which expired now. From these reserve lists, I then had two informal interviews where the jobs ended up going to existing SCS.

I'm getting pretty desperate as I absolutely cannot spend another year at G6 - I'm demotivated and my morale is on the floor from the lack of development at the grade.

I've passed every SCS interview (technically) and still getting nowhere. There are very few SCS jobs, competition is absurd and I'm competing with those already at the grade which is so difficult. I've noticed a few things as well:

a) jobs tend to be horrendously stitched up at SCS1; they typically go to those already TP-ed in the role, or people known to the Directors recruiting.

b) I think I've made a strategic mistake of not specialising in one area. I've jumped around departments a lot (6 departments in around 10 years) because I was always advised that was good for development and networking, but those who stayed in one area progressed more quickly than me. I work in policy and legislation and developed some really meaty things (bills, Brexit and Covid policies), but am a generalist and don't specialise in any particular policy area, which seems to be hurting me.

c) I sometimes think that it has something to do with my personality - I'm quite outspoken and independent and I feel people sense that and potentially prefer more 'corporat-ey', cold leadership personas.

Does anyone have any advice? Have you been in a similar position? I've been getting an 'exceed' marking for 3 years now, with super strong feedback so I don't understand what's going on. I think the issue is potentially that I've moved around too much (I tend to do only one job in a department and then go to another department) and never stayed long enough to become someone's 'protege' so to speak. Any thoughts on how to break out of this?

Bumping your thread for you as I want to know what SCS and g6 is 😁

Have you asked for interview feedback? Do you an SCS mentor?

That sounds really tough! Do you have a mentor? Have you done the Future Leadership course? Both of these can be helpful in raising your profile internally. You're getting interviews so it's clearly a reasonable next step for you if you're clearing that hurdle, but there's likely something you're missing in the other stages. Are you looking for posts within the Department or other teams? Flexibility on post can be useful too.

I have no other advice than to keep persevering. It can take a very long time to get to SCS (that's Senior Civil Service for the lurkers!) and 3.5 years at Grade 6 is not really that long.

Hang in there. I'm sure you're doing really well.

Senior Civil Service and G6 is the grade before it

Yes and no. So yes I have asked for feedback, but it's always really vague like, you were great and clearly at the level, but the other candidate... etc. When I ask why the other candidate is better, they can never quite specify - so most of this feedback is useless.

I used to have an SCS mentor but it's so damn hard to find! Good reminder though, need to get another one!

@Robat definitely get a mentor, look for someone in a different department who you respect and networks well. Mentors can give you a heads up on opportunities for TP as well as substantive roles, give you feedback on where to focus your development.

Future leaders is a good shout.

Network, volunteer for cross gmt initiatives so you get interaction with senior leaders etc. Get your name known.

No to both - had a mentor but they left the CS, and now it's pretty hard to find someone who actually cares. On the FLS - I tried once and didn't get on it, I then also spoke to others who did it and they said it had nothing to do with promotions really.

I look across all departments - but I think perhaps that is the issue? I worry that Directors want people to have a previous track record in the particular policy area. I'm a generalist and very passionate about government but I can't really say I'm focused on any particular policy field.

Where I am 3.5yrs is pretty long - I feel very behind!

3.5 years doesn't seem very long to me. I spent 7 years as a G7 before moving up. I think the amount of times you have moved around would put me off. Our staff don't like leadership changing too often and I would be hesitant to employ someone who jumps every few years. Five years in one department seems to be the norm that I have experienced.

Thanks! 🤓

Have you been in the same role for 3.5 yrs? If so I'd move sideways for development if you're not having any luck upwards.

Move into private sector (e.g. Big4 consulting) for a couple of years then back to an SCS position with the experience?

I am considering it, it's just that I really don't want to - but might have no choice. I don't think Big4 would be for me however, I'm not that profit driven.

Think it really depends on the department. When I look around me, it seems to be the norm and people move a lot. But I also moved a lot because I tended to work on crisis priorities, which by their very nature are time-limited.

It may not be very long in general, but it's pretty common now to stay at G6 around 2-3 years.

No, they were all time-limited projects in different departments.

I meant to say, it wasn't that I just decided to leave, but the projects had a timeline and ended.

and *it ended

Re FLS, i was told it's really common not to get on first time. Think of it as like the Fast Stream. I've been a G6 for 2 years and have been told it doesn't necessarily lead to SCS immediately but sets the "corporatey" (as you say) bits as a foundation to build on for SCS.

Which depts are you applying to? (Appreciate you might not want to say as outing). I work in a small dept and its really hard to get an SCS as we don't get the same level of churn. We've had several G6 colleagues leave for bigger depts, where the job opportunities seem to come up more often. Having said that, its also very rare at SCS that we recruit from outside the Dept. SCS interviews are always hotly contested internally and so there are usually a strong pool of G6s to pick from, which would make it even harder for any external candidates who wouldn't know the Dept techhinical side as well.

Is there a specific policy area you would like to focus on? Could you do sideways move into that area for a bit and then go for an SCS again?

What’s stopping you now from staying in this role and department? You could stay and move sideways and when the opportunity does arise go for it.

i know it’s not as easy as that but you’ve tried it the other way perhaps it’s now time to try it this way?

A friend told me once that you get promoted in the civil service when it is in someone's interest to promote you, and this has been my experience. You need to be useful to someone. Stay in your current department and make clear that you are interested in challenging projects etc. Do some corporate stuff.

Agree that jobs are thin on the ground right now, due to where we are in the parliamentary cycle and all the Brexit/Covid overpromotions. You probably just need to be patient. 3.5 years isn't that long really.

Thanks, very helpful. Regarding your last point (recruiting externally), I think this is basically becoming the main issue for me. My current dept has a recruitment freeze so I can't apply for any roles either at DD or G6 (and my current role is time limited so they will just place me somewhere where I probably don't want to be). My worry is that I just really don't want to do another year or two at G6 - I have developed past the grade, did three G6 roles already and the prospect of doing another one really brings me down. I'm annoyed I've let this happen but I had no idea my dept had a freeze when I joined.

My project comes to an end in the next few months and there is a recruitment freeze in the dept.

It'll all even itself out in not too long but at the moment there's not much around job wise as you've observed.

Unfortunately the reality is you might be stuck where you are for a while, so I'd find a way to make the best of it. That's what many of us are having to do. I'd leave my current role in a heartbeat (also G6) but there's nothing to go to!

Did you get feedback from all the interviews you did?

Also I'm interested that you think you've developed past the grade but that's not translating to securing a next grade role. What can you do to up your game? Do you have a second or third opinion on whether you have actually developed past G6?

Eh I feel you! The job market is terrible - not just for SCS1, but at G6 as well so as you say even if you want to move on level transfer, it's not that easy anyway (or at least not easy to get into a role that's robust).

The reason I say I've developed past the grade is that I've now had 'exceed' for 3 years (in all my G6 roles) + SCS feedback.