Toxic job and workplace - technically signed off - what to do?

[Disturbia1985]

In a bit of a difficult situation, feeling really alone - sorry for the incoherent rambling in advance.

I have worked for a company for about a year and a half (aware this means I am under the two years of service rule). It's a mid-sized company that's based in Denver in America and certainly feels that way in how they do business and the company's general approach. They needed someone to support the global operations for time zone reasons and also because of my specialism.

It's been absolutely awful from day one and my mental health has declined to a staggering extent in recent weeks. I was planning to leave by the end of the summer because I'm so fed up and concerned by ethical issues, but now I don't even know how I can make it to the next week let alone months. I need this income until at least August though.

The main issues I've been having are:

• Unmanageable workload / workaholic culture. I am responsible for about 15 different countries in just one part of my job and also accountable to management in america. Every day is chaos and firefighting because everything has to be done instantly in the company's culture. Feels like i am working like an american which i did NOT sign up for.
• Excessive hours and role badly defined - working into every evening because of the timezone issues and unclear scope of role. Have raised this time and again and they tell me just to stop at the end of my working day which is never possible with my role and the amount of work that comes rolling in during the late afternoon my time.
• Excessive remote culture / isolation - everyone seems to be remote which makes for a lonely existence combined with the long hours. All the colleagues i work with are dispersed in different counties and most of them in Denver. Just can't do it anymore, feels like living in a virtual reality for 12 / 14 hours a day.
• Constant overwhelm - the company uses so many different systems to communicate that are causing me daily burnout and exhaustion - three different instant messaging systems, emails non stop, virtual meetings that take up half my day because they love meetings. I am burnt out at the end of every day.
• Chaotic culture - non stop service and product changes, management has been overhauled twice in the short time i've been there, insane levels of staff turnover, constant reorgs and shape shifting.
• Aggressive and mean culture - management seem heartless and don't give a shit about anything apart from their bottom line. Constant throwing people to the wolves. Complete "chew up and spit out" culture and widespread burnout. Staff here get the bare minimum rights (e.g. SSP). there is zero HR process or policy here, if they want someone to leave because they're not sucking up to management / drinking the cool aid anymore / they're unwell / pregnant / face no longer fits, they fire you or manage you out with a package very quickly.
• Unethical / strange controlling culture - discovered the company was monitoring my location which i felt was highly unusual and there is nothing about this / no justifiable reason for doing this in their data protection policy. Other general controlling culture is constant check-ins with management and over-involvement in my work. The final straw was when i discovered my boss lied to me about something important and the company pressured me into doing something unethical because it's what the company management wanted.
• Relationship with line manager going south. Was given a new manager after half my team got fired last year. They are the most patronising person I ever met. I do not click with this individual at all, I try to avoid them as much as possible and keep our interactions brief and professional. Given the enormous stress i have been under lately, I've found myself being quite short with them which has been noticed and pretty sure they're going to have a conversation with me about the fact i am not getting on with them.

Things got so bad in the last few weeks that i found myself having heart palpitations, nausea, headaches and crying spells and feeling very very low. I have a history of diagnosed mental health issues over the years that I've had treated but never disclosed to anybody apart from hubby. I recovered from them, but the workload and culture of this organization have aggravated this and tipped me over the edge. Even thinking about logging into work this week makes me feel sick.

I went to my GP on the weekend and had a near instant breakdown and the doctor signed me off work for a minimum of a month telling me I was dangerously burnt out and should not be working. The doctor gave a very general reason in the sick note so you wouldn't be able to tell it's mental health or disability related if you read it, and ordered me to come back in a month for a further evaluation.

I know now that this is not the place for someone like me with a history of mental health problems and I desperately need to get out and take a break. The problem is that I don't want to disclose my illness to my managers because they can't be trusted, have a very immature attitude towards diversity and inclusion and could just fire me anyway and I really need the money for a few more months at the very least. I am really really worried about professional / reputation consequences of taking time off or them firing me on health grounds. On the other hand I feel I also can't actually take time off work using the sick note the doctor gave me because I found out the company only pay SSP to staff here which I thought was unbelievable as I've always had a period of full pay in any previous roles, perhaps that was naive of me but glad I checked. So I'm in a situation where my health is in the and will be financially screwed if I stop.

What on earth do I do? I feel like my options are:

• Ride it out for the next couple of months and quit in the summer. not sure how feasible this really is because i am at my wit's end with current pressures and relationship with manager isn't great - but this means I don't have to tell them anything about my health and don't burn any bridges. On the other hand it means they could fire me because I'm not a team fit anymore and without knowing anything about my current health.
• Have a meeting with managers this week and explain doctor's signed me off (making it clear it's related to a long standing health condition that has recently declined) but explaining I am worried about actually taking time off because of the major financial implications from their crappy sick pay benefit, and put it on them to make a decision (i.e. make them ** their pants that they've caused this and force them into offering some sort of enhanced sick payment) - unfortunately this means telling them I am unwell and all the stigma / consequences that come with that including firing risk.
• Just send in the sick note, make it clear it's disability related and take the month off and insist they offer better sick pay in the meantime, maybe under the threat of raising a grievance if they don't - unfortunately this will leave them in the ** workwise, result in them probably just paying SSP and most likely lead to me being put on the firing list when i return from leave.
• Have a meeting with managers, explain things aren't going so great on health grounds due to workload, not coping anymore and want to leave (without actually resigning). Intention here is to start a discussion about leaving the company and hopefully just agreeing an exit package, assuming they will be worried if they sense that their working practices have caused aggravation of someone's health - downside to this approach is that they could just say "well you're free to resign today" or fire me on the spot with just notice pay.

I am genuinely fearful about disclosing anything about my health to them and / or taking time off because of how nasty and aggressive this company can be. At the same time they know that I am aware of all the skeletons in their closet and so i would think it would be pretty stupid of them to take action like firing me / putting me on SSP where a doctor has signed me off unwell on disability grounds.

Realistically there is no way back from this either way. If I stay in the role, I know I will need to leave soon because it is not bearable anymore or they might just fire me because i'm no longer a team fit. Equally if I disclose my health issues / take time off, this will certainly be the end of the road for me at the company - i'll be seen as a problem and either fired or managed out quickly.

There is no realistic way that adjustments can be made to my role and I see no path forward in this job anymore and was planning to leave later this year anyway. I just want to know how to manage my health and leave this show in a way that doesn't destroy my health / reputation because none of this is my fault - they've taken massive advantage of my conscientious nature for too long.

I am kicking myself for ever taking this job. For years I worked for a really large UK company with great benefits, caring HR and good managers and colleagues. I felt safe at work. Now I feel completely lost in this messy chaotic foreign organization and my health in shambles and in total isolation. This is my lesson learned and I feel embarrassed for taking this career risk and it ending up in disaster.

Sadly quite a few companies don't pay sick pay and you just get SSP, it's not right but it's also not illegal or anything. The reality is you need go get out, whilst it's not ideal whilst burnt out get applying for other jobs, by the sound of it you have plenty of experience etc. It's tricky with time off I can see why you're worried, similarly though being close to burn out is no joke and you need to take it seriously and look after yourself.

I'm not sure of the answer, I don't think there's an easy one, but don't feel silly for taking a risk or whatever else- its good to do so it's just sometimes they don't work out and that's okay; nothing to be ashamed of. Id definitely take the time off though and start applying elsewhere and more importantly to recharge and look after yourself.

Thank you for this, and for the kindness in your message. I just keep sobbing thinking about work at the moment and how awful it's been and how i've not been very good to myself. I'd love to get out immediately but i've got savings i don't want to burn through that i'm putting towards a major personal project later in the year. It's why i am wondering whether i could just take the time off and negotiate sick pay or just an exit because these people have destroyed me.

Honestly op. Feck the savings and just quit. This place will not change and they're incredibly unlikely to offer you anything after 18 months jn the roll. Life is too short to be this unhappy. You could always temp for a while until your perfect job comes up.

I don't think any of the 4 options you've presented are viable / sensible.

It's very obvious that you can't hang on until the summer. If you're well enough, you need to start looking for a new job now. Maybe even something temporary to tide you over financially while you look for a more suitable permanent role.

You can't just tell them you want enhanced sick pay and expect it to happen. They will have a company policy on sick pay. You can't reasonably expect them to give you extra sick pay because you're struggling in your role and you didn't realise they only paid SSP. Nor can you expect them to increase sick pay because of a disability that you've never told them about before. You're not being reasonable OP!

If your MH would count as a disability under the Equality Act, it's up to you if you tell them now. If you think they will support you with adjustments, tell them. But you can't just use it to demand more sick pay.

It sounds like you are hoping you can use their working practices to get them to pay you off. Only you know if you have the evidence for that and if you're willing to go down the legal route (and fund legal costs) if they're not willing to negotiate. This can be extremely stressful, especially if you're already struggling with your mental health. I would advise against it if you're feeling fragile.

U.S. employers can be VERY different to U.K. ones and it sounds like you've had a massive culture shock. I used to work for a U.S. company with a large presence in Denver (although HQ was elsewhere in the U.S.) and did a lot of work out there and yes, it can be brutal. I saw some very good senior people (who I worked closely with) fired with zero notice because their faces didn't fit with new management's plans. One of them was U.K. based and had a strong case for a tribunal. But the legal fees would have been huge and the case drawn-out and stressful with no guarantee he would win. The U.S. employer had a team of expensive lawyers and were going to fight all the way. My colleague chose not to put himself and his family through it in the end.

It comes across that maybe you aren't thinking clearly right now, which is understandable given the circumstances. You need to prioritise finding a new job and getting out of there. Do you have any family and/or a partner who can financially help you if you stay sick for longer and use the time to recover and job hunt?

You aren't going to change the culture, partly because it isn't unusual for an American company( I work for one). So you aren't going to get more sick pay however much you push.

I would start setting boundaries for yourself, finishing when you are meant to etc. The company itself has told you to do this. They might not like the results but they will have less space to pushback on that.

Get another job ASAP. Don't feel bad for trying something that didn't work out. The next step might be perfect for you.

This sounds horrendous - burnout is absolutely awful to experience and it seems you're suffering from that to the extreme.

The way I see it, you have a couple of options. If you disclose your health conditions as soon as you can, you'll be protected by law against any kind of nefarious sackings - despite not having two years of service you can claim unlawful dismissal as disabilities (incl mental health disorders) are counted as protected characteristics. So if they do go on to fire you after your time off you can raise a grievance citing discrimination with more likelihood of an exit package vs not disclosing your health conditions. I would lean towards doing this, despite your work sounding absolutely awful you'll have more protection.

The other alternative is to use your time out to look for a new healthier job so you can hand in your notice as soon as you're due back.

Alternatively would it be possible to check out and just do the absolute bare minimum til August? Perhaps hand in hand with disclosing your health so any kind of PIP/managing out would have to be handled very carefully.

Really don't envy you OP - feel free to come back to this thread for any support. I've suffered horribly from burn out in the past as well as have taken legal action against a firm for discrimination (maternity, not disability), so always happy to lend an ear for support. It's a horrid place to be in.

You can't fix the work or the management.

You can only do what you can do and what they will let you do.

Take the month off. The company aren't going to go bust as a result. Fuck em if the individuals think anything negative because you're ill.

Financially, what are your needs? Will you be eligible for UC in a month or so? Can you and DH meet your bills etc with the SSP or not?

What are the consequences if you can't meet the bills temporarily? Can you borrow money, sell things etc? Can you try to negotiate a paid exit from this job or is that not realistic? Can you use examples like the unethical work as evidence of bullying and poor management to get that paid exit?

You said you need the money until August. What changes in August?

Can you look for a new role at the moment? It might be too much for you right now though.

Thank you for this. It feels like a weight lifting just talking to someone about what's going on. Thanks to others too for the pragmatic advice. The company has this culture of everyone pretending to be amazing and perfect (very american) but I am buckling under the pressure. I don't even know if I am burnt out or what that is, just that I am really depressed and anxious and the doctor told me i should stop immediately.

I thought about disclosing my health issues to the management for the exact reason you say - that it would give me at least a little bit of protection while I try to find something else (i.e. they'd have to handle any exit discussion carefully). Just trying to work out whether I do it on the basis of "I have this long standing condition, it's being aggravated due to workload, what are the options for me" so they are put on notice but also opens up a dialogue about things being rather shit and an exit needs to happen at some stage, either me resigning or them asking me to go.

I would hope it would not come to a PIP. I have never had any performance concerns in my decade plus career, am seen as a good worker in my role and performance issues have never come up. But I understand being signed off with ill-health could trigger a PIP process for inability to do the role.

as an internet random it seems to me that the only thing you can really do is send in the sick note and have the month off (at least).

the fact you are presenting various other options as feasible seems to be a symptom of the burnout to me!

it is shit when a company only pays SSP but there isn’t anything you can do about it.

hand in the sick note, don’t speak to anyone from work about anything, start looking for a new job when you can ❤️

@Disturbia1985

"Just trying to work out whether I do it on the basis of "I have this long standing condition, it's being aggravated due to workload, what are the options for me" so they are put on notice but also opens up a dialogue about things being rather shit and an exit needs to happen at some stage, either me resigning or them asking me to go."

This sounds really sensible - you've already raised concerns about workload so shouldn't come as any surprise to them to hear. Could you raise this via email and keep comms in writing so you don't have to face the thought of doing it in person?

Maybe think of the situation as you've already decided to leave, they're probably going to be shits about it one way or another, so the next couple of months is just about maximizing what's happening so it's an exit that's as easy and stress-free as possible. From that perspective you may as well disclose the health issues as you've said above as it puts the onus on them to come up with a solution.

what would the process of disclosing mental health concerns for the purposes of protecting yourself through the disability act? Is there an element of ‘proof’ required and what is that threshold? Juts wondering if that I itself is going to draw you in to an emotionally taxing conversation.

Sorry, I meant to say - what would the process of disclosing mental health concerns for the purposes of protecting yourself through the disability act LOOK LIKE?

Look at it from their perspective. Do you have any idea how they feel about your delivery? Will they be desperate to keep you, or once they know you are struggling and not going to deliver will they want you out?

If they will want to keep you then maybe you can negotiate something advantageous, but you're going to have to make them a pitch they will find attractive.

If they are chew up and spit out then reduce what you are delivering so you 'fail' and let them fire you or resign as soon as you can afford to, whichever comes first. The mental previous condition disclosure might help here if you think it will hold them back from firing/get them to make you a better offer to go.

I am not a lawyer so I don't know, but understand my conditions meet the definition of a disability. So I'd just tell them I have a disability and I need to find a way forward to manage it. I imagine that they can't ask for proof of it unless they send me to an OH appointment - i'd attend one of those happily if they want me to.

It will come as a surprise to them that I have a health condition and have been struggling, but it won't be a surprise to learn it's related to the workload and hours. The culture means that as soon as they know there is something like a health condition that could become problematic, they will want to discuss exit straight away. Like I said, there's no HR process or policy, they throw money at problems to make them going away, mainly difficult staff.

Honestly OP, this job is ruining your health. hand in the sick note and use the time off to put your energy into finding another job.
I know you say you need to stay in this job until the summer as you need the money but if you end up keeping going off sick you're only getting SSP anyway.

Start job hunting today. Good luck and hope you feel better soon

It just sounds like from what you said they aren’t the sort of company that will take this sympathetically. I would want to know that I wasn’t going to be subject to anything intrusive and that it would actually benefit me to go through that conversation/process.

As you defo want to leave I think taking the sick note and looking for another job is going to be less draining that trying to make it work for a matter for months.

The UK company my partner worked for was bought out by a US company and his role quickly became impossible.

Issues included:

• absolutely no proper management/planning, constant fire fighting issues and reports needed to be complied within impossible timeframes
• insane workload
• expectation to work later to allow for US time differences
• expectation to start work earlier to deal with workload
• people routinely took their laptops on their holidays abroad and attended meetings from poolside!
• absolutely no paid overtime - told to take time of in lieu but workload was never such that this could viably be done

Needless to say he quit as did his boss and several of his colleagues!

He's now back working for a UK company and LOVES the difference in culture (absolutely no expectation to work beyond 5pm or start earlier AND he's getting paid more!)

You cannot fight a work culture issue by yourself - you need to just leave.

@Disturbia1985 forgot to mention - my partner was so desperate to leave that he quit without having a job to go to. He registered with some agencies after working his notice period as he couldn't face interviews etc while working in his crazy job.

The agencies all asked him why he left and when he explained the change in work culture following the buy out they all nodded and told similar stories for their own or friends experiences. It did not reflect badly on him at all! He got his new permanent role within a couple of weeks and absolutely loves it.

Thank you all so much for the kind responses. And for listening to me. It's made me a bit more positive overall.

I am now just wondering whether I could have a super honest conversation with work this week and say the role has become unmanageable, disclose my disability and the fact a doctor has signed me off and say I am trying to manage that too and present two options-

1. I stick to my contracted hours for the next few months and we work on a plan on how to manage my current workload and priorities.
2. We talk about whether this role is sustainable / working out long term and what the options are.

I feel like just having this conversation would bring enormous relief and probably mean they're less likely to fire me on the spot, giving me time to focus on finding another job.

explain doctor's signed me off

Anywhere I have ever worked (over forty years experience) once a Dr. has signed you off, you are not covered by the insurance to be on company premises or use company equipment.

hopefully just agreeing an exit package,

Where is your contract of employment based for legal matters? At less than two years service in the UK, they can fire you for any reason, they gave no incentive to agree a package.

I'm sorry you are struggling in this way. Given their culture, I would go off sick. Get yourself better as quickly as possible and find a better job.

If you decide to get the sick note cancelled and continue to work, I'd suggest just working your hours and letting anything else slide.

It isn't really credible that someone could be too I'll to work but sufficiently tenacious to negotiate the payment of more than SSP when your contract specifies SSP. Surely they would just fire you, at BB less than two years service. Sorry.

Good luck.

I would:

• take the month off. Your health comes first and your GP has signed you off for a good reason. You should not be working while you are so poorly/burnt out
• use that time to recover and start applying for jobs
• when you come back you ask for a meeting with your line manager and state your workload is not manageable and that you want to make it clear that from now on you can only do your allocated hours and the tasks that can be realistically competed within that time. You also declare your mental health issues and make it clear the stress of the unrealistic workload has made your condition worse
• if they want to get rid of you they will have to be a bit more careful as you have declared your long term health issues
• The best outcomes will either be that you find a new Job soon or your current company agree that this is not the job for you and might offer some kind of settlement/garden leave.

I am also planning to leave my current role after I also had a complete meltdown last week due to a combination of unrealistic workload, subtle bullying/undermining by a couple of people that is now intensifying and being forced to travel 4 hours to be in the office more regularly when I took the job on the promise that it would be mostly remote.

I am going to declare my long term mental health issue and a long term health condition that gives me chronic pain to make them very aware that the current situation is affecting my health and I will make it clear that the current workload is impossible to manage.

Some work places are just toxic and life is too short to deal with this type of companies.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do this week @Disturbia1985!

I'm disabled. I'm saying that up front for a reason. I also know US employment cultures well. Just get out, and get out now. Those people telling you that the Equality Act ( it hasn't been a disability discrimination act since 2010, which tells you something about the quality of knowledge being lifted) does not offer anywhere near the protection many people think it does. And they'll almost certainly just sack you. Then yes, you can take them to a tribunal and you might even win the stressful and lengthy process. Good luck enforcing it against a US company. You will never hold them accountable, and as you've been told, this is normal culture in many US companies. Walkn away and protect yourself. The fight won't be worth it!