Question on arguing a discrimination case - different types of discrimination question

[Varanasi]

Hi,

As some people may be aware I am in the process of fighting a case where the CEO of my company has effectively asked me to resign during a flexi-time request time meeting. I was told in no uncertain terms just 3 weeks before I planned to return that I would have to be prepared to travel to Selby possibly for weeks on end as soon as I return. I can't do this. The company knows I can't do this. Earlier on in the flexi-work process my employer has also broken legislation by failing to provide with adequate reasons (no explanations provided and refusal to provide when asked!) why my claim was rejected. I have checked the BERR website on this.

The employment lawyer has consulted me on my case and believes I must raise a grievance ASAP and that I must resign since I can't go to Selby for weeks on end and also because the company clearly asked me to do this is an appeal meeting so that I might resign. I am going to get a second opinion before I resign but I am definitely going to raise a grievance as I can't go back to that company realistically. The CEO has made it clear I am not wanted there so where is there for me to hide?

To demonstrate what I am up against, in the appeal meeting I told the CEO that there is no problem for me to go to London at 8am in the morning and that I have very flexible child care arrangements. The CEO just said 'Your childcare arrangements are your problem. They are not ours!' This was just one example of the sort of thing I have had to tolerate.

The question I have is that I believe that I have suffered indirect discrimination since my boss has unjustifiably asked me to do something that I can't based on my gender. However I am the only woman who does this particular role within the organisation (which in my opinion makes me more vulnerable not less and is indeed why they want to get rid of me) However does that mean I can't claim it is indirect discrimination?

Also if a Company bullies and harrasses someone because they feel they cannot do their role the same way because of their gender would that be indirect or direct discrimination? Or would it be something else? An employment lawyer said that legally deliberately flouting the 'Right to Request' regulations by a) refusing to provide explanations and b) using the 'Right to Request' act as a means to push me into resigning is in itself an act of discrimination. However if this is the case then I would assume that it would be classed as direct discrimination?

I did not have time to discuss these points with an employment lawyer as it was only a 1 hour consultantion. However I think if I am going to raise a grievance I need to understand what counts as discrimination and what doesn't as any mistake at this point might be costly. I am probably going to need to pay someone to help me write it.

Just wondering though if anyone can help shed any light onto this issue ?

Varanasi good luck with your grievance. One thing I would like to say is beware of taking action because of pride not the end result. I say often to people on here and in RL as well, try to take a step back and look at your situation. Work out what you are not happy with about it. Work out what a positive achievable outcome is. Work out what positive action you can take to get there as quickly and smoothly as possible.

Sometimes that does involve taking action, to get closure, to make a change or whatever, sometimes it involves not taking action where you could.

I am not at all saying I don't think you should take action, I think it's entirely possible in your case that you do need to do this for yourself. But do try and have a think about your situation as you go through this from the point of view I mention. If it comes to it, don't get carried away just by the desire to make a point if it doesn't progress as you want it to. There is a tremendous amount of maturity in having the self-awareness to know and do what is best for you especially if that involves walking away.

As I say, that doesn't mean I don't think this is best for you of course. I think it probably is at this stage and I also think it may not go much further anyway, from the signals your company is now sending. It's just your comment about it not being about the end result that made me want to post this as a different point of view that you might want to think about down the line.

Do come back and let us know how it goes and if you want to chat about it some more.

(and thanks Moonlit! )

I agree with Flowerybeanbag. If I had resolved things whilst at work, I wouldn't be in such a mess now. Try to sort things out at work before you take any further steps. From my experience employment solicitors say what you want to hear.

Thanks guys for all your support!!!

I will certainly let you guys now what happens.

Sorry meant 'know' of course!

Hi,

There has been a new development. I sent my boss my grievance and understandably he wasn't too chuffed--- I could tell by his reply though he wasn't agressive either. I guess no boss would be pleased. He has made it very clear that he won't talk to me about the grievance without HR present which again I guess is what I should expect.

Grievance tackled 2 issues: breakdown of trust and inappropriate handling of my 'Right to Request' application. It was pretty factual but I did add some emotional bits ie expressing feelings of disappointment and humiliation since I wanted to provide an honest representation of how the Flexi work process has made me feel.

Since then the owner of the HR company (my company outsource their HR services) called and has arranged a secret meeting with me prior to my return to work! He claims that the purpose of the meeting is an informal chat to see if this issue can be sorted out without going through HR etc (strange since he is HR)!

Personally I would have thought that my Company would be best off explaining their behaviour directly to me.... ie they have done a lot of things that I think are very bad ie insisting there may be increased overnight travel, blatant attempt to cover up fact they have restructured, failure to handle my flexi time request appropriately etc....

I don't have a problem meeting this guy but am not clear what it can achieve. It seems very 'cloak and dagger' as I would have thought direct talks would be best way for rebuilding trust within a company. I have a gut feeling that my Company don't want me to question them - to be honest it is not their style to be that open and upfront. Perhaps they think they have done nothing wrong but I doubt it as in this case they should have nothing to hide and be only too happy to explain their actions. It would appear that they are trying to avoid face to face talks!

Any ideas what I should prepare myself for at this meeting? Is it normal to organise a secret meeting to tackle a grievance? I am concerned by this meeting and its purpose.

Do you know what I think? I think he is going to sound you out for a compromise agreement, in other words negotiated your resignation in return for some cash. If I'm right, it's a very delicate balancing act having that conversation which is why it's taking place in this manner.

I may be entirely wrong, but that was my immediate assumption, can't see any other reason for this.

Go to the meeting, listen to what he has to say, and don't agree to anything. Have a think beforehand about in principle whether you'd be happy to accept something and leave. If he doesn't raise it do not raise it first. If it goes that way it's all about the money and if you give any inkling that you wouldn't be averse to an offer like that, you immediately give the impression that you actively want to leave and therefore will go for not much in the way of compensation. If I'm right, for your benefit it has to all come from them. If there is any discussion of figures or whatever, don't enter into it. If it is a compromise agreement, they have to pay your solicitor's fees to have it looked at so you shouldn't agree to anything yourself.

If I am hugely wrong, still go to the meeting, listen to what he has to say and take it from there really. Still don't commit to anything, if he has any proposals of any kind, monetary or otherwise, just listen and say you'll think about it and get back to him. Then come and tell us.

Hi FloweryBeanBag,

I have had this secret meeting. I'm afraid it wasn't that exciting but it has been made clear that they are now backing down on the issue of overnight travel and are prepared to provide me with projects I can commute to!

The HR director annoyed me though by making it clear that my work still felt that they were in the right to insist on increased travel because of my contractual obligations ???? This isn't true - they just don't want to lose face. They restructured and didn't bother to tell me so clearly they were in the wrong and knew it! I know the CEO would not back down on anything unless he absolutely had to.

So I now have a situation where I can continue to do my job in the long term. But I am so angry that I had to raise a grievance just to be able to return on the terms I was entitled to in the first place! It doesn't really make me feel valued.

The HR director also wants me to forgo the formal grievance procedure in return for this offer and just chat to my linemanager on a more informal basis to discuss the way my application was handled.
What do you reckon? I am considering accepting what they are proposing but
that on successful completion of my first assignment I get a first ever pay review (in 3 years!) and at least one bonus (never received one) as the last project I worked on before I went on Maternity leave I worked my a*se off but on unbilled time due to no fault of my own. I was harrassed and bullied by other colleauges on that project (which my boss was aware of). I also was not thanked for completing a successful handover.

What do you think? I realise I now have acceptable terms and conditions of employment but they haven't done anything to compensate for the way my request was handled in the first place ie very poorly and unlawfully (failed to follow the procedure outlined on BERR site). There appears to have been no real business need for them to have insisted I travel for months on end to Selby, Newcastle etc since they are now suddenly able to drop this demand and find me suitable projects. Should I try to push few more concessions? Especially if they are reasonable ie things I think I should have had anyway.

Varanasi that's good news they've backed down, well done.

One of the first things I would say to someone raising a grievance is 'what do you want?' I don't know if you thought about this when writing the grievance?

I'm a bit confused by your post, have you already asked/been told you can have a pay review and a bonus, or is that what you want to ask for but haven't yet?

If the pay review and bonus already been agreed to, what do you want to achieve from continuing with the grievance? You mention that they haven't done anything to 'compensate' you for the way your request was handled. What compensation do you feel is necessary? If a claim goes to tribunal in most cases compensation is decided largely on what the claimant's loss is. You now have acceptable terms and conditions, you haven't lost any money, you still have your job, so what compensation do you want and on what terms will it be? I'm interested to know how you are thinking at the moment.

If you haven't asked for a pay review and bonus yet, I would do so only if you are due both anyway. If you're not due a pay review and owed a bonus, they are unlikely to give them to you, there would be no need for them to do so if they've put this situation 'right', and it could obviously create problems internally if you get things you wouldn't normally get. If you
are due both, then definitely pursue it, and it may well be a good idea to discuss it and get a letter confirming it in return for dropping the grievance.

You mention that the legal procedure for flexible working was not followed, you are absolutely right. But if that question ended up at a tribunal, the tribunal would force them to consider the request again in an appropriate and legal manner, that's all, there would be no compensation involved in that.

Hi FloweryBeanBag,

Thanks for all your help with all this. It does seem all this has finally got resolved or at least in the short term.

I am happy that my company have backed down on site location but obviously long term it is a concern that I had to raise a grievance for them to do this. I am also concerned that since my Company chose to offer me my new terms and conditions without the normal grievance meeting, there has been no dialogue between me and the employer. That cannot be a great thing.

Nevertheless providing I get the details of my new terms and conditions in writing I will try to raise the issue of how my application was handled with my line manager informally. I only asked for small amount of unpaid leave and terms&conditions similar to what I had understood to be the case in the past so I just don't get why there was so much resistance. I was truly shocked tbh at just how hard the door was slammed in my face. The relationship I have with my employer has suffered as a result so it is something that in the long term needs to be rebuilt.

As for pay rise - one is due as I have never had one in 2.5 years and we don't really have set times for pay reviews anyway so if I don't ask I will never ever have a pay rise. However I have just returned from leave so I plan to wait until I have done at least a couple of months before asking. I could then potentially bring up issues such as projects I have worked on in the past where I was not adequately thanked, paid etc as a justification for a pay rise.

You are absolutely right that no dialogue isn't a good thing.

I think often more constructive and fruitful dialogue occurs outside the grievance process, there is obviously a bit less tension, less paranoia about what is said and negativity is reduced as well.

Definitely initiate a conversation to resolve the remaining issues and work out how to improve working relationships going forward. Approaching it with that attitude will earn you respect and brownie points. Do raise the salary issue if it is an issue, but I would probably advise not doing it in a 'so I will drop the grievance' way, that won't help you at all!

Hi FloweryBeanBag,

I have spoken to my linemanager. I wasn't convinced by his explanations but at least he agreed to talk to me...

I have also had a brief chat to the CEO. Let's just say it was like speaking to a different man

Although there is no guarantee on how the future will turn out -- they may try to play games again in the future (who knows??) the fight for better terms and conditions was worth it - definitely. Now I have gone back to work I actually feel a lot more confident than I ever have done in the past. It's a good feeling so I will now try to use this experience in as positive a way as possible.

Thanks FloweryBeanBag for all your help and support. Your advice is always objective and I have really appreciated that.

No problem at all, glad you're feeling better about it all, onwards and upwards!