When to ask about wider package?

[Hairybaker]

Starting to look for a new job… Fairly senior manager level so salary wise looking at £50-60k. But the wider package of a role is also important to me eg working hours, holiday allowance and WFH policy. Would you ask about this before an interview if it’s not made clear on job spec? It would be the difference between accepting a role and not for me so I don’t want to waste time (mine or theirs) in preparing for interviews if it’s not the right package for me in the first place.

I’d definitely ask, all those other elements make such a difference.

I couldn't say "wider package" with a straight face <immature>.

Do you not see the interview as good experience ? If that is the case, I would definitely keep that question until after you've received the offer. Only when the employer understands you and your value to the organisation will you be in a position to negotiate the package you'd like, no ??

I would typically wait until closer to the end of the interview process to raise those topics. And ideally with their HR/recruiter person rather than the interviewer/hiring manager.

But I'd be very surprised if they don't explain the wfh policy upfront.

Wider package 🤣

Yes I do see it as good experience but not if they then turn around and say “it’s 20 days hol, 9-6pm and four days a week in office”. Most interviews in my sector will involve me doing a presentation so a fair amount of work to put in if it’s not the job for me.

I’d ask what the complete package on offer was

Most of the jobs I've applied for recently have had me talk to someone in HR/recruitment before scheduling any interviews. I always ask about money and working arrangements at this point.

There is no point interviewing me if you're gonna offer half the salary I'm looking for.

You can often find holiday entitlements on the company website or glassdoor, but yes, don't hesitate to ask.

I would not ask any of those things prior to interview.

God forbid companies think we want to work for anything other than the honour of working for them.

OP I'm a firm believer an interview is a two way process - you're interviewing them as much as they are you. Are there any contact details on the job application? You can always phone and ask to speak to the recruiting manager about the job opening and ask about company policies regarding holiday and wfh. Alternatively wait until the interview and in the any other questions section mention that there wasn't any info in the job spec, but what is their policy regarding flexible/hybrid working and annual leave.
I do a lot of job interviews and wouldn't look negatively on those questions at all - though we outline it in the job spec and interview to preempt it. We know we can't pay top market rate so part of our package is attractive extras (ie good holiday allowance).
My attitude would be if a company was reticent about talking openly a out these things they probably have a terrible attitude to work life balance and employee welfare and should be avoided with a large stick. If they don't hire you because you've enquired, then you've dodged a bullet.

She asked about prior to interview. I answered. Your answer which I did not bother to read is just your opinion, assume OP didn’t want to only hear from you. There is no need to attack other people.

I just got a new job and the talent acquisition were very straight up and said budget is this, company policy is that. Do you wish to continue. When I got the role, wage was a few k higher which was a wonderful surprise obv.

If you have talent acquisition as stage one, I'd ask them.

I ask the recruiter upfront. I’m simply not going to take a job that’s a paycut or involves routine late nights in the office. It’s amazing how many times ‘a really exciting opportunity’ fizzles when I lay out salary expectations (not all of them do but probably 50%).

I would ask the HR people before getting to the interview, especially if they could be dealbreakers.

My current role the working hours are 8.30am-5.30pm, while I'd just assumed until the point I received my contract that it would be 9-5pm, like my previous workplace.

Also 25 days holiday, plus bank holidays, which was down from the 30 days plus bank holidays I was receiving at the my old workplace.

The 21% uplift in pay massively compensated for all of the above, plus the fact I love the job, however I'd have thought twice if they'd have mentioned these things beforehand.

This kind of stuff really winds me up. Employers need to realise that people aren't going to work for them for fun. It's unreasonable to expect you to spend your time having detailed conversations about what value you'd bring to them and what they'd like from you, without the other side of the potential contract being addressed early on in the process.

Obviously things are (or should be!) negotiable, but it should be standard practice for salary ranges/ expectations, leave policies, maternity policies, flexibility, work culture, travel expectations, benefits, pension contributions to be discussed as openly as what the employee will offer in return and I think we need a huge culture shift on this.

The expectation that the potential employee should be coy about asking such things (i.e. anything of any benefit to them, the entire reason they might consider the role...) until the employer makes an offer wastes a lot of everyone's time and is not how any sort of business or contract negotiation takes place in any other circumstances!

We'd be fine with you asking before we started the formal interview process about the benefits and work culture - we want you to want the job - if our working hours or our hybrid arrangements don't suit - we'd rather not talk to you because we won't negotiate on them - especially for a new candidate.

Where I work those kinds of policies are all on our website, alongside vacancies. I've also been asked about it a lot when interviewing and am really happy to big up work culture.

Good companies will advertise their policies and perks. You can also LinkedIn stalk staff to see what they say about working there.

😂

I'd definitely ask about work culture. It is one of my main concerns.

I probably would ask about the finer details of the contract after I was offered the job. But I wouldn't say that needs to be the rule. It's just what I've always done

I would definitely ask recruiter or HR before the interview, along with confirming salary expectation. In the interview I would try to ask questions relevant for the person in front of me (so would focus more on culture, strategy, the type of candidate likely to succeed inrole with someone who is going to be my superior - probably would save benefits questions for HR). Totally agree that interviewing is a 2 way street, but at the same time, as someone senior in my org I would look askance at a senior level candidate who just wanted to talk about benefits. There are smarter questions around team culture and work styles that will tell you the same thing but are less transactional in tone.

I personally do not ask these questions until offer stage, it's a moot conversation until you have the job and that's the point you can negotiate it too. Only if I was really uncertain about a job would I ask upfront if I was wavering as to whether I could be asked to apply. The only exception is salary, I point blank refuse to apply for jobs with no salary listed, if I absolutely loved the sound of the job I would ask for the range upfront (but have yet to find a job without a salary listed that was enticing enough to want to apply!)

I'd ask my HR /talent recruitment/whatever contact before interview. Perfectly normal.
I wouldn't ask 'directly' in interview, but a few diplomatically worded questions about work culture.

We have spoken to people who are unwilling to interview until we have told them the salary range - we'll always give them a salary from £X but the negotiations up from there take place after we have interviewed them - so they will have to impress us with skills beyond the basics of the job description. Faced with an ultimatum on range we will say goodbye at this point.

I personally do not ask these questions until offer stage, it's a moot conversation until you have the job and that's the point you can negotiate it too

I don't get this view. I mean, why would anybody in a contract negotiation be prepared to invest a load of their time talking about what the other party wants and how they would fulfil it without any reciprocity? It could all be a complete waste of time: there's no way for either party to see if the contract potentially has legs without both sides of the contract being discussed. Why should anybody spend effort and time demonstrating they can do what the other party wants/ needs if they don't do the same?

Clearly negotiations to nail down specifics would take place after offer stage but they should at least give a ballpark of salary ranges, flexibility, benefits and annual leave etc they expect to provide otherwise it may not be worth wasting anybody's time on having a discussion. If they can't afford you, or won't as a minimum match your existing terms or offer significant additional financial compensation for not doing so, what would be the point? 🤷🏻‍♀️ It's very weird for one contracting party to expect to discuss the consideration on one side of the contract and not the other from the get-go, and I would consider it a red flag.

@AlienEgg as I say I would need to know basic information like pay, and if the package would have a huge influence on my ability to accept and an arduous application process, I would do it upfront. But as a package is generally negotiable and interview experience is useful, I'm usually happy to delay, I think it's a conversation better had at offer, when we each know what we can offer each other. I often find pre offer the recruiter has to take default corporate lines "we do 40% office attendance" for example, but once they really want you and you're actually discussing YOU in the role, I've found I've been able to have more success around flexibility in particular.

I just wouldn't be prepared to spend my time and effort doing multiple interviews for a role without them being clear up front that they'd be flexible and prepared to negotiate properly on such things. It would make the process very lop-sided with me expected to demonstrate what they want without much in return until they decide they want me. They need to convince me it's worthwhile for me, also, through this process not just at the end of it! The contract had two sides and they need to be putting as much effort into demonstrating what they can do for me as vice versa otherwise why would I be interested in spending my time on this?