Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

NHS flexible working post-Maternity leave

42 replies

Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 12:00

I'm just looking for any advice on how to approach this.

I have a three month old baby who is my absolute sunshine after several previous horrific losses. I have been preparing early for my return to work, knowing that nurseries fill up quickly. I've found my child a full time place and reserved it.

I decided to informally speak to my manager about whether I could drop down to 4 days a week (would help save on expensive childcare but mostly I want to spend a bit more time with my baby, given how much I have been through to get to this point). I suggested also shifting my hours so I could pick my child up from nursery on time. This would mean I would cover one of the Early shift slots. Late shift would end far too late to pick up my child. Even a normal day shift is tight to pick up from nursery.

My boss was not open to discuss this at all. She immediately said I was eligible for all shifts and this was pretty much non-negotiable. And she said it was "highly unlikely" that I would be allowed to drop a day. I was hoping,by having an informal discussion, we could come up with a mutually agreeable solution but hey ho.

So I will make a formal flexible working request instead. It asks about the impact on my team and how this can be mitigated. I'm guessing that I can't use the fact that my position was left uncovered for six months when I had pregnancy related sickness and then maternity leave as evidence that working a 4 day week shouldn't be a problem?

OP posts:
Taq · 24/04/2023 12:03

It asks about the impact on my team and how this can be mitigated. I'm guessing that I can't use the fact that my position was left uncovered for six months when I had pregnancy related sickness and then maternity leave as evidence that working a 4 day week shouldn't be a problem?

Congratulations on your baby.

I think it’s ridiculous that they put this on the form. It’s not for you to worry about. I left it blank on mine as in my view, the form is to state your reasons for needing flexible working. It’s up to management how best to implement it.

But in your position I think I’d just write ‘I would hope that management could employ the same strategies they have been using during my absence’ and leave it at that.

Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 12:21

@Taq that's a good idea, if I state that then it looks a bit less snarky than some of the things going round my head!

OP posts:
Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 12:27

I think I might consider leaving the NHS once I've gone back and worked my 3 months (to avoid repaying my maternity money). I feel I've really gone above and beyond, even when under ridiculous time pressures, and I have been very flexible when needed. I've seen other people getting flexible working agreements over the years that were ridiculous and never reviewed. But the second I need one, it has to become a problem.

OP posts:
OwlsDance · 24/04/2023 12:31

I thought NHS was 12 months, not 3. I could be wrong though.

Mumof1andacat · 24/04/2023 12:37

You could apply for another nhs position if you wanted and return to that role maybe? You don't have to pay back mat leave but this new position might suit your hours better

Whatonearth3 · 24/04/2023 12:40

Hiya,

I was in your position 18 months ago and it’s totally shit isn’t it!

After working so hard for years to get nothing back from your employees is soul destroying. I was pregnant through the pandemic (after losses like yourself) and got treated really badly. It made me reevaluate my priorities in life, and killing myself working above and beyond as a nurse for the NHS, without any respect in return, wasn’t something I waned to do anymore.

When it came to discussing my return I was denied any changes to my working hours, so with both of these issues combined I left nursing after my 3 months were up (I had 7 weeks annual leave to use anyway, so I only actually had to return for 5 weeks in the end).

I’m now doing a PhD and it’s so much better! I get paid just a bit less than I was doing as a nurse (which is insane) and my hours are completely flexible so I get to spend as much time as possible with my babies :)

Family is so important and so is your quality of life. Work is just a job! If you don’t feel you’re getting what you need from it don’t be afraid to leave.

Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 12:41

@OwlsDance no, it's 3 months luckily

@Mumof1andacat I will start looking closer to the end of my maternity leave but I'm really becoming tired of working for the NHS. There's always something causing issues. This is a bit like the last straw. Which is a shame as I love most aspects of the job. I just hate the way it's managed and how staff are treated.

OP posts:
Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 12:50

@Whatonearth3 I'm so sorry this happened to you too. You're definitely right. I will submit my flexible working request formally then, if there's no joy, I'll start looking for jobs when I'm closer to the end of my maternity leave. I was hoping that they wouldn't want to lose me but I think I over-estimated their opinion of me.

OP posts:
lkkjhg · 24/04/2023 12:55

Your application has to show you've appreciated the impact on your service and proposed ways to ameliorate these.

As a manager they won't be interested in how your proposal suits your home life.. they need to show it won't negatively influence your colleagues or the service you provide to patients.

SunnySaturdayMorning · 24/04/2023 12:57

lkkjhg · 24/04/2023 12:55

Your application has to show you've appreciated the impact on your service and proposed ways to ameliorate these.

As a manager they won't be interested in how your proposal suits your home life.. they need to show it won't negatively influence your colleagues or the service you provide to patients.

This.

Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 13:07

@SunnySaturdayMorning and @lkkjhg absolutely. I will propose that they use the same procedures as when they left my role vacant for months. Or when my co-worker left and they didn't recruit for 3 months. It should be no problem, seeing as they can do it when it suits them. And I'm sure they won't mind me working my job to the very letter until I leave for a different job. No extra cover, no answering queries at home, no working through my lunch.

OP posts:
SingLikeADuck · 24/04/2023 14:13

I'm going through a similar thing with my work (different industry). Remember that there are unions and ACAS if you feel discriminated against.

SunnySaturdayMorning · 24/04/2023 16:05

Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 13:07

@SunnySaturdayMorning and @lkkjhg absolutely. I will propose that they use the same procedures as when they left my role vacant for months. Or when my co-worker left and they didn't recruit for 3 months. It should be no problem, seeing as they can do it when it suits them. And I'm sure they won't mind me working my job to the very letter until I leave for a different job. No extra cover, no answering queries at home, no working through my lunch.

Do you think having an attitude will help?

The fact of the matter is you are contracted for X. They have no obligation to change it to Y just because you had a baby.

Your childcare arrangements are your problem, nobody else’s. If the job no longer suits, it’s time to find one that does.

Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 17:32

@SunnySaturdayMorning I'm upset because my boss took ten minutes to consider my request and was very dismissive. If she had said "OK, let me look into it. Obviously the needs of the service come first but we'll see if there is anything we can do", then I would not be seeing red. I would feel like I was properly being considered. Now I feel dismissed.

But I would like to point out that actually if I do as I suggested and drop all the extra stuff I do, like working through lunch, answering queries when I'm at home and not covering last minute shifts, that isn't me having an attitude. That is me saying that I am contracted for X, so that is what I will do. Obviously this is not conducive to a nice atmosphere so I would look elsewhere for a role more suitable for my family life.

And I never said that my childcare was their issue. But the NHS likes to shout loudly about supporting flexible working where possible and supporting work-life balance. They can't then be dismissive when their staff want to try and request this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 18:59

OK, I think all I can do is submit my request and see what happens. If they can't or won't compromise then I'll find something else. I've had a horrendous few years and the fact is that work is just something to pay the bills. Not worth this stress.

OP posts:
Hopefulbride18 · 24/04/2023 20:32

Hello, I just wanted to add that your trust should have a flexible working policy, this would be worth looking into. It could help you discuss with your manager the trusts responsibility to explore flexible working options for their employees.

I'm surprised at everyone saying up thread you need to evidence how you going part time won't impact the team negatively. I think this is the managers job to explore how hours could work and the team set up. I guess what they need to decide is whether that impact of you becoming part time is more negative than you leaving completely... Recruitment is impossible at the moment.

I work for the NHS and moved trusts post maternity leave to a job which had better hours for me. I avoided having to pay any maternity pay back by doing this and my new hours are much more manageable.

Good luck!

Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 20:41

@Hopefulbride18 thank you. I've found the policy and I'll keep it close by when I fill out the form.

I do think that part of my managers problem might be that if I drop one day, she has 7.5 hours that she will lose from establishment as there's nothing useful she can do with them. Then, if I left, she'd not get those hours back to recruit someone else and could only recruit for 30 hours. So I might have to give up the idea of doing that and focus on asking for the early shift instead.

OP posts:
Mightyouandiconfabulate · 24/04/2023 20:52

Good luck op.

I had to leave my job after 18 years due to my manager refusing point blank to allow any change in my formal working hours.
Like you, that was on return after having a very long awaited precious baby.
Informally I had been working for years as the service needed, hours waaay outside my formal hours.

Unfortunately for me, it was a very inexperienced new to management manager, who left about 5 months after I did due to her crapness.
I wanted to slightly reduce my hours and have set working days. It was a straight up NO straight away.

I found a job with better hours and more money.
good luck.

Ohheyitsme1 · 24/04/2023 20:53

Which NHS do you work for?

Potatomashed · 24/04/2023 21:14

Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 20:41

@Hopefulbride18 thank you. I've found the policy and I'll keep it close by when I fill out the form.

I do think that part of my managers problem might be that if I drop one day, she has 7.5 hours that she will lose from establishment as there's nothing useful she can do with them. Then, if I left, she'd not get those hours back to recruit someone else and could only recruit for 30 hours. So I might have to give up the idea of doing that and focus on asking for the early shift instead.

Sorry you’re going through this OP. In my experience, it has been easier to reduce my hours than to work a set shift because they see it as unfair to everyone else to force them into working more later shifts… Unless you can find a colleague who would prefer not to work earlies and then this can be written in the request?

Original poster
Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 21:18

@Potatomashed that's true but there is already a colleague who only does late shifts so I wonder if that helps my cause?

OP posts:
itsjustnotok · 24/04/2023 21:26

Georgina125 · 24/04/2023 17:32

@SunnySaturdayMorning I'm upset because my boss took ten minutes to consider my request and was very dismissive. If she had said "OK, let me look into it. Obviously the needs of the service come first but we'll see if there is anything we can do", then I would not be seeing red. I would feel like I was properly being considered. Now I feel dismissed.

But I would like to point out that actually if I do as I suggested and drop all the extra stuff I do, like working through lunch, answering queries when I'm at home and not covering last minute shifts, that isn't me having an attitude. That is me saying that I am contracted for X, so that is what I will do. Obviously this is not conducive to a nice atmosphere so I would look elsewhere for a role more suitable for my family life.

And I never said that my childcare was their issue. But the NHS likes to shout loudly about supporting flexible working where possible and supporting work-life balance. They can't then be dismissive when their staff want to try and request this.

It doesn’t surprise me at all. My DH was rushed to hospital so I left work 50mins early to be with him and our DC. I hadn’t (as usual had my full breaks due to the business of our department). I cleared it with the person in charge on shift, they were more than happy and added they hoped he was ok. My manager told me my children would be fine on their own….surely. I explained that it was irrelevant whether I had children or not, my DH was being taken to hospital by ambulance and ended up in Resus! So I’m not surprised that this is the sort of attitude you’re experiencing.

Isthisexpected · 24/04/2023 21:30

Is there anyone in the department who might like an extra shift etc? If there is precedent for some people having flexibility around shift patterns I would write this down and also what mitigation is in place for them could apply to you potentially.

Northernlurker · 24/04/2023 21:40

The 7.5 hours lost is a big issue. That's a lot of service provision. Is there anybody part time who might want to up their hours?

Catsonskis · 25/04/2023 04:30

I would 100% mention past precedents of your colleague working set shifts, why can she and not you? Unfair/u equal treatment

and I’d suggest that if they have been able to manage without your cover for x period of time, you put in your fwr that the 7.5 hours could be used as a cost saving initiative, everyone’s looking to save money here or there.