Anyone moved within the civil service as an external candidate?

[mrsjackbauer87]

Just wondering if anyone has been in this situation. I started with CS a few weeks ago and discovered the role I've accepted has been completely mis-sold. As soon as I realised I started applying for other jobs and now have an interview lined up for another department within the CS.

I did tick the box saying I was employed by CS but the system doesn't seem to recognise me as internal (I wasn't expecting it to as I've been here under 6 months) and of course because they don't want CV's you can't see I recently joined via work history.

I suppose my main worry is, if they realise at interview (not a given as my previous CS interview was just strengths and behaviour no current role type questions) will they liase with my current department at any point? I feel like they wouldn't, just based on what I've seen so far buy I'm not certain.

My manager knows I'm not happy with certain things and he is trying to compromise and accommodate me slightly but it's still very different as sold to me...I would just quit tbh but I don't want the gap, especially as CS recruitment takes so long. My notice period is only a week and if they knew I was leaving they would want me out ASAP as I'm in training for another 3 weeks. I certainly wouldn't want them to find out, especially as I may not even get th other role and it my be a while until I find something else.

@mrsjackbauer87 don’t worry. Allow your job application to progress. When you are offered the job, notify the recruiting manager you are an existing Civil Servant and they should instigate the internal transfer process. This does give your current department up to 8 weeks to release you.

There is no issue applying for other CS roles.

The one issue to be aware of is probation, you may need to do it again or job adverts may require you to complete your probation. My advice focus on passing probation so you have got it done whilst applying for other CS jobs.

Good luck

there’s a transfer process when you already work in the civil service https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-civil-servants-how-to-move-jobs-between-departments-and-agencies

@Foreversearch thanks, I've no problem completing a full probation or even restarting length of service if I am offered a new role.

@Newuswr thanks but that's for people that have completed 6 months and are applying internally. I've only been there a few weeks, so have had to apply externally.

I'm half thinking to resign. It would be easier in some ways to stick it out for six months then try and move internally but one of the reasons I took the role was it fit in around my commitments and now it doesn't so its going to be an expensive and stressful time if I did stay. Plus the two roles I've applied for very much match my previous experience, I can't say there will be anything similar in 6 months.

It's a bit of a mess, I've been really clear I'm not happy to have started and find out the expectations are so different but at the end of the day someone has clearly cocked up and that's just not possible within this role.

Is it the role that’s completely different to what was advertised, or the hours?

Don’t resign yet if you hope to stay in the CS! Your continuous service will start from the day you were first employed by your original department. That’s important for things like pension, annual leave entitlement etc.

Let your current application(s) run. Your prospective department won’t contact your current department until you’re at ‘accepted offer’ stage, at which point the transfer process will begin once your new department have concluded all the pre-employment checks.

@MeetMyCat I'm trying not to be too outing but a bit of both.

that's for people that have completed 6 months and are applying internally.

That’s incorrect. I have worked in CS for years, including management roles. My colleagues have had to use this same transfer form for external roles, even with less than 6 months of service. It’s how they transfer your HR record across departments and process your pay properly. You keep mentioning “6 months” in all your posts, but that isn’t a relevant factor for using the transfer form.

DH is doing this now.
Applied externally (only option). His current department knew nothing about it until he mentioned he was in salary negotiations having been offered new role. The 2 departments are very similar - think auditing for supermarkets vs auditing for non food retail sort of comparison.

@Newuswr OK fair enough, that might be the form. My question was more around if the prospective department may communicate with my current department. I keep saying external as I don't yet have access to internal vacancies (take it this comes after 6 months).

I'm more concerned about my current manager getting wind I'm applying for other roles after only being employed for a matter of weeks. He knows I'm not happy and is trying to accommodate me but his hands are tied.

@anonononon that's helpful, I just feel like it's awkward. In fairness I've said openly I wouldn't have accepted the role if I'd been given the correct info but it still feels like I'm doing something a bit dodge by applying for another role whilst receiving training.

Where I am, the protocol is to let your manager know when you are applying for new roles.

When a job has been advertised externally, internal candiates can and do still apply, but they have to go through the full external assessments. When it comes to the actual move, however, they are back to being treated as internal in terms of the process as its just a transfer on the system.

It's also very difficult to move while still in the probation period. It would be worth making sure you've read the staff handbook guidance in your area and know whats in your contract to so you're aware of what you can and can't do, and don't end up finding that it's harder to enact the move than you anticipated Ince you've got an offer.

Are you a union member? The other thing I'd suggest is talking it over with your union rep and/or HR- clearly it's not great to be in a position where the job is not as advertised. There are pretty stringent rules around this too, as post grading and salary gets tied back to the job description. Union help could probably also support you in making a move happen despite the probation period issue if you can argue that you've been misled.

My question was more around if the prospective department may communicate with my current department.

Yes, they do if you are successful.

The PP explained it well. Basically you are treated as an external candidate until the pre-employment checks phase of your new job application. Then your current manager and new manager will liaise a start date together. They use that transfer form to process your record. You can see the sections you and your manager need to fill in.

The main difference is you generally need to start the new role at the beginning of the month to ensure your pay isn’t impacted due to cut off dates. Therefore mid-month moves are unlikely in comparison to new CS starters.

You can’t apply for internal jobs but if you are successful as an external candidate, you will still have to transfer your record using this process.

Also I doubt your manager cares if you are applying for new jobs, especially if you’re unhappy.

You’ll find in CS that everyone is always applying for jobs. Your department probably has meetings on application advice and development opportunities etc. You might be able to find application advice on your intranet or CS learning

@mrsjackbauer87 you should be able to see internal vacancies. Most will want you to pass probation, but not all.

Go to CS Jobs website and sign up with your work email and you should see all vacancies.

Remember you can apply for higher grades too.

If you are applying for something competitive or prestigious then I think the recruiting department is unfortunately more likely to sound out your current manager. I applied for a new role a couple of weeks in, my director was informed, and they were furious with me.

@Softleftpowerstance when was this? That doesn’t sound right. I think managers used to be informed of your job applications but that doesn’t happen now with civil service jobs. It seems silly for OGDs to contact your manager before they’ve confirmed you’re successful. Waste of time if you fail the interview

@Softleftpowerstance it does happen because in some professions and/or at some levels people have worked together over the years and don’t think about what they are saying.

However, as the manager you keep quiet until your employer tells you.

Why, it is a breach of GDPR. Your response to your unprofessional manager should have been. Wow that’s a breach of confidentiality I wonder how their manager would view their unprofessional behaviour.

This was about five years ago. I’d like to think it’s changed. But as it was the director of the department who gave me a dressing down it very much felt like the official approach.

@Softleftpowerstance was your role in SCS? In my department, directors would not involve themselves with non-SCS.

What’s the job, if I may ask?