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Original poster

Being 'forced' back into the office

191 replies

PinkPeonies22 · 31/03/2023 20:11

Wondering whether anyone works for companies that after letting them work remotely for several years during the pandemic, have now told them they need to return to the office. How have organisations been policing/enforcing it, and has anyone been made to leave for refusing to go back? If so, how? (eg. was it via disciplinary?), and did you have compelling reasons why you wanted to continue to work remotely? Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
Oblomov23 · 01/04/2023 17:29

Completely within their rites to insist. Most companies are, or offering a hybrid.

BlackFriday · 01/04/2023 17:58

There was also a thread not long ago with the majority of posters outraged that a boss had scheduled a remote meeting at 9am. This interfered with the school run and was therefore deemed outrageous, despite many people's jobs being 9-5.

It's this sort of attitude that might be frustrating some companies.

MadeOutOfMeat · 01/04/2023 18:01

So stupid if they are doing that. In my organisation many of us worked largely from home even before Covid, it has always worked perfectly well. In fact, when during Covid it moved to 100% homeworking productivity increased! Some organisations are run by dinosaurs still, sadly. And disproportionately by extrovert types who can't fathom that what works for them doesn't work for others and you should - as far as possible - give employees the autonomy to work in the way that suits them best if you want high performance.

Tirrrrred · 01/04/2023 18:03

MintJulia · 31/03/2023 21:23

I explained to my boss that if he wants me to go in to the office two days a week rather than one, he will have to pay me an extra £500 a month because that's what it will cost me after tax & NI.

He backed down. 😊

Presumably you did this before Covid?

DojaPhat · 01/04/2023 18:32

Tirrrrred · 01/04/2023 18:03

Presumably you did this before Covid?

Show quote history

This country is wedded to suffering. I don't doubt when trains were invented there were crowds who didn't think a quicker, more efficient mode of transport for the masses was a good idea. They would have been outside parliament shouting that as they had to walk 50 miles to buy a stamp everyone else should too.

And the wonderful thing about these attitudes is that they stem from those who'd even benefit from such provisions. The millionaires and billionaires couldn't give two hoots. This is why the material conditions cannot ever be improved.

Tirrrrred · 01/04/2023 18:46

What?

Original poster
PinkPeonies22 · 01/04/2023 20:22

DojaPhat · 01/04/2023 12:21

The country is genuinely one of serfs, imagine thinking that we must all return to the office regardless of practicalities or any sort of work/life balance and the opposing view is 'if you don't like it QUIT' because we must be seen to be doing work and putting on a wash at midday means you should face a disciplinary.

Haha, yes, this! But seriously, it has been fascinating if a bit alarming how many people on this thread seem to get angry or annoyed with policies that support choice, employee wellbeing, and as another poster pointed out, are more equitable for many groups such as mothers, introverts, people of colour, and more. Before anyone shouts me down on this, there are tons of studies that have found evidence of this. I am not saying we should ONLY have wfh, but surely a choice is best?

OP posts:
Original poster
PinkPeonies22 · 01/04/2023 20:26

bussteward · 01/04/2023 13:13

Covid regulations such as the legal requirement to self isolate ended February 2022, not July 2021. Post-pandemic gaslighting is so weird!

Show quote history

Agreed re the gaslighting! And yes, we started wfh March and have been called back in spring 2023. Several years, most of which was during the pandemic.

OP posts:
DewinDwl · 01/04/2023 20:40

magicthree · 01/04/2023 09:29

My yearly commuting costs would be £800 if I had to work from the office full time. So no I wouldn't be happy to lose that money plus 90 minutes a day.

I keep reading things like this. Were you forced to take a job so far away from where you live? It truly astonishes me how far some people travel to go to work, why, just why?

Our team relocated just before covid. Forced relocation. Before that my commuting costs were zero -a pleasant walk. But I don't think a 90 minute round trip for work is exceptional.

KatherineJaneway · 01/04/2023 20:46

OP, did your contract of employment change to reflect not working in the one office as per the announcement around working remotely? If not, then I'm sorry but you were foolish to move home without solid proof of a change in your terms and conditions of employment.

Staff where I work are now asked to work 2 days a week, either in the office or show they are with clients / supplier's or at external meetings.

Attendance is being tracked. Those who are not coming in enough are asked if they have a reasonable adjustment or temporary issues so they are not coming in and if not, well they are being asked why they are not attending the office amd being told they need to attend.

I love remote working but there are benefits to being in person as well.

mewkins · 01/04/2023 23:18

Catsonskis · 01/04/2023 14:49

Even if you contract was WFH the company can change the contract as long as they give you notice, I’ve had it happen.

I work for the NHS and even though I’ve been employed by x trust, when x merged with y I had no legal standing to object to being told to work at y because my contract states to work anywhere in the Trust!

As I understand it they can only do that if you have that clause in your contract, as yours does. Mine is a home based contract and doesn't say that they can change where I'm based.

Minimummonday · 02/04/2023 00:21

I genuinely don’t understand a lot of people’s positions here. Yes, things were different pre-covid. As they had been for hundreds of years. But covid showed that a lot of jobs are equally well performed at home.

And a lot of workers like this arrangement.

It matters nothing if they’re ‘not working as hard’ because the job is being done. Or they would be fired.

Come on people. This is the chance for everyone to say no to corporations running and ruining our lives, to working till we drop.

To reclaiming work / life balance.

Fuck to reclaiming life.

We don’t live to work we work to…etc etc. I’m very senior in a company and stunned that so many on here argue so vehemently to erode the freedoms workers achieved

It’s more than workers have achieved in centuries.

Come the fuck on people. One chance.

Spectre8 · 02/04/2023 00:54

Minimummonday · 02/04/2023 00:21

I genuinely don’t understand a lot of people’s positions here. Yes, things were different pre-covid. As they had been for hundreds of years. But covid showed that a lot of jobs are equally well performed at home.

And a lot of workers like this arrangement.

It matters nothing if they’re ‘not working as hard’ because the job is being done. Or they would be fired.

Come on people. This is the chance for everyone to say no to corporations running and ruining our lives, to working till we drop.

To reclaiming work / life balance.

Fuck to reclaiming life.

We don’t live to work we work to…etc etc. I’m very senior in a company and stunned that so many on here argue so vehemently to erode the freedoms workers achieved

It’s more than workers have achieved in centuries.

Come the fuck on people. One chance.

Except its hard to prove they aren't working and doing their jobs unless there is a severe drop in performance.

Again noone wants to go back to 5 days a week in the office. And I repeat it again if u have to go a couple of days a week just do it and quit moaning.

And there have been ppl admitting they are looking after kids whilst wfh...as a manager do you think that's acceptable? Your paying someone to work not look after their kid...

TheFireflies · 02/04/2023 01:17

magicthree · 01/04/2023 09:29

My yearly commuting costs would be £800 if I had to work from the office full time. So no I wouldn't be happy to lose that money plus 90 minutes a day.

I keep reading things like this. Were you forced to take a job so far away from where you live? It truly astonishes me how far some people travel to go to work, why, just why?

My husband wfh now but previously paid £60 a month on public transport, which would be a three hour round trip to work.

He lives eight miles from his office.

Stopsnowing · 02/04/2023 01:34

I have noticed this. People now factor commuting into their working by hours as they reckon they can do emails on the train.

HerRoyalNotness · 02/04/2023 01:42

My company wanted everyone back. Most people ignore them. They’ve introduced week on week of office/wfh. They are short on space. Still everyone ignores them. Helps we are in an industry with shortages and plenty of other places to work.

mackthepony · 02/04/2023 01:55

Come on people. This is the chance for everyone to say no to corporations running and ruining our lives, to working till we drop.

^

This is what DH and I are are ALWAYS saying!!! It's our one chance!!! We need to take it!!!!

HelpMeGetThrough · 02/04/2023 07:38

How have organisations been policing/enforcing it, and has anyone been made to leave for refusing to go back? If so, how? (eg. was it via disciplinary?)

Was easily done in our place. Anyone not on a home working contract, was told to go back. Told if they refused it was breaking the terms and conditions of their employment. One refused and was shown the door. Funnily enough, the rest of the office based staff came back without issue.

Greenfairydust · 02/04/2023 09:43

''@PinkPeonies22
DojaPhat · Yesterday 12:21

The country is genuinely one of serfs, imagine thinking that we must all return to the office regardless of practicalities or any sort of work/life balance and the opposing view is 'if you don't like it QUIT' because we must be seen to be doing work and putting on a wash at midday means you should face a disciplinary.
Haha, yes, this! But seriously, it has been fascinating if a bit alarming how many people on this thread seem to get angry or annoyed with policies that support choice, employee wellbeing, and as another poster pointed out, are more equitable for many groups such as mothers, introverts, people of colour, and more. Before anyone shouts me down on this, there are tons of studies that have found evidence of this. I am not saying we should ONLY have wfh, but surely a choice is best?''

Absolutely.

It is completely bizarre to me that people could be so negative about something which is benefiting so many employees & (enlightened) employers.

Considering that the UK has had low productivity for quite some time, with people taking a fair amount of sick days and having a lot of issues with stress/mental health, you would think that we would accept the benefits of new ways of working.

The long-hour, presenteeism culture does not translate into happy, productive workers.

As some people have mentioned it also is a barrier for a big part of the potential workforce: disabled people/people with long-term health conditions, carers, parents...

It also gives people the option to live in places with cheaper houses and makes public transport less congested for those who can't work from home.

All I can think of is that people either have a ''martyr'' complex and/or have internalised the concept that work must necessarily make your miserable or they are the type who use work as an ego boost so must have their staff in their sight everyday so they can feel ''powerful''.

Or they are people who have jobs that can't be done from home and are upset that others have that option...

It is really pathetic to assume as well that WFH means people spend their day looking after their kids or going out instead.

Most of us are mature, responsible adults who are perfectly able to deliver without having a manager breathing down our neck.

Very sad I must say.

Also, I currently work for a charity where salaries are not great but they offer flexible working. This is the reason why I took the job. If they were to remove the regular WFH option, I would leave the job. The organisation is already struggling to recruit. So, smart employers also understand that being flexible helps retain and motivate staff, especially if they are competing with other sectors that offer better pay.

SilverGlitterBaubles · 02/04/2023 11:17

@Greenfairydust I do see this point, as well as the work life balance also I think there is an environmental benefit in not having more cars and people commuting every day. Despite the government and big companies spouting green agendas the positive environmental impact of WFH is never mentioned. Fridays are notably calmer and quieter on local roads as this seems to be a day many WFH. Also when people are struggling with eye watering cost of living rises increases to commuting and childcare costs could be the clincher to decide if they stay with that organisation or not.

Whenharrymetsmelly · 02/04/2023 11:24

Greenfairydust · 02/04/2023 09:43

''@PinkPeonies22
DojaPhat · Yesterday 12:21

The country is genuinely one of serfs, imagine thinking that we must all return to the office regardless of practicalities or any sort of work/life balance and the opposing view is 'if you don't like it QUIT' because we must be seen to be doing work and putting on a wash at midday means you should face a disciplinary.
Haha, yes, this! But seriously, it has been fascinating if a bit alarming how many people on this thread seem to get angry or annoyed with policies that support choice, employee wellbeing, and as another poster pointed out, are more equitable for many groups such as mothers, introverts, people of colour, and more. Before anyone shouts me down on this, there are tons of studies that have found evidence of this. I am not saying we should ONLY have wfh, but surely a choice is best?''

Absolutely.

It is completely bizarre to me that people could be so negative about something which is benefiting so many employees & (enlightened) employers.

Considering that the UK has had low productivity for quite some time, with people taking a fair amount of sick days and having a lot of issues with stress/mental health, you would think that we would accept the benefits of new ways of working.

The long-hour, presenteeism culture does not translate into happy, productive workers.

As some people have mentioned it also is a barrier for a big part of the potential workforce: disabled people/people with long-term health conditions, carers, parents...

It also gives people the option to live in places with cheaper houses and makes public transport less congested for those who can't work from home.

All I can think of is that people either have a ''martyr'' complex and/or have internalised the concept that work must necessarily make your miserable or they are the type who use work as an ego boost so must have their staff in their sight everyday so they can feel ''powerful''.

Or they are people who have jobs that can't be done from home and are upset that others have that option...

It is really pathetic to assume as well that WFH means people spend their day looking after their kids or going out instead.

Most of us are mature, responsible adults who are perfectly able to deliver without having a manager breathing down our neck.

Very sad I must say.

Also, I currently work for a charity where salaries are not great but they offer flexible working. This is the reason why I took the job. If they were to remove the regular WFH option, I would leave the job. The organisation is already struggling to recruit. So, smart employers also understand that being flexible helps retain and motivate staff, especially if they are competing with other sectors that offer better pay.

Maybe because people also value social interaction, mixing with people who are different to yourself and gaining social skills. Just reading another thread where someone isn't even capable enough to call their friend to see if they are coming over. Wfh full time is really bad for introverts, basically making them socially incompetent! I despair for the next generation if this is the world they are growing up in ... just stop to think about that for a moment

Greenfairydust · 02/04/2023 12:56

@Whenharrymetsmelly

''Maybe because people also value social interaction, mixing with people who are different to yourself and gaining social skills. ''

That's a bizarre comment.

Social interaction does not have to be through work.

I prefer to do my socialising with friends, partner, family, the people I interact with at things like exercises classes and so on. My social circle is very diverse.

I don't need my co-workers to provide me with entertainment or chit-chats...

I am also not quite sure either why you think you know what is good or bad for introverts. They are perfectly able to decide what works for them individually and what human contact they need and with whom.

I am definitely an introvert and commuting and being in an office is draining to me and actually reduces my ability to do my work.

To suggest we need work to be able to meet and interact with other people is frankly nonsense.

NoTouch · 02/04/2023 13:12

Whenharrymetsmelly · 02/04/2023 11:24

Maybe because people also value social interaction, mixing with people who are different to yourself and gaining social skills. Just reading another thread where someone isn't even capable enough to call their friend to see if they are coming over. Wfh full time is really bad for introverts, basically making them socially incompetent! I despair for the next generation if this is the world they are growing up in ... just stop to think about that for a moment

Show quote history

Maybe because people also value social interaction, mixing with people who are different to yourself and gaining social skills.

It is about looking at individual jobs and circumstances not setting blanket policies. All this can absolutely be done over zoom, especially in remote roles and everyone uses it a lot and are comfortable with it. My relationships with my remote contacts, the ones that are the most important to me and my role, have grown exponentially over the last couple of years as I have been able to talk to them freely without the intrusion of an open plan office in the background. I know so much more about them, their families, their personal lives and challenges and what drives them.

One of many examples is during that freedom we had to talk and develop our relationship I found out someone, on a different continent, in a team I am in, that I have worked with for years has bipolar disorder and how it affects him. It made so many things about him slot into place and when I WFH I can talk about what I can do to to make things work best for him when he is in different phases, I can't have those natural conversations in an open plan office. This would never have happened if we were not WFH and putting on the masks people put on in their offices.

Notanothernewname · 02/04/2023 13:39

Question for all the people complaining about commuting costs and times. Did you not pay them before Covid? Is your office not the same office? I see this argument wheeled out all the time but unless you've had change in terms of contract you are still full time office based and WFH is at manager's/ceo discretion.

I knew when I accepted my job that I would be commuting 90-120 minutes each way (on a bad day) but I also knew it would be hybrid. For me if I was forced back 5 days a week it wouldn't be what was advertised.

Minimummonday · 02/04/2023 13:39

@Whenharrymetsmelly you don’t understand what being an introvert means. It means being around people depletes your energy. An extrovert is someone who gains energy from being around people.

Being an introvert does not in any way equal social incompetence, or being shy or wanting to be alone all the time. I am an introvert - I have a LOT of friends, I go out all the time socially. But being in an office ‘on’ for 8 hours a day drains me and makes me feel like shit, physically and mentally.

Introversion isn’t a condition that needs managing or making better.

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