City/in-house and ex-lawyers - advice please on change of career Part II - PPH/Issy...

[crumpet]

I had a thread a while ago about a possible career change here to a sort of hybrid legal/commercial role, in which PPH and Issy in particular were helpful, but things moved very slowly after that. However they are now coming through with the job offer and it is one I am quite enthusiastic about - with the exception of one thing: the job title.

I have floated with them the idea of changing it, as "Commercial Contracts Manager" is not one which will throw open the doors for me in a senior legal role should I choose to move back to a pure legal role. They are open to considering change as long as we can iron it out quickly - but I'm short of inspiration. There is already a recognised function of "Commercial Manager", so that's out. I'm not looking for something so different that it pisses off the other Commercial Contracts Manager, but equally need something to make sure my cv isn't binned in the future.

Any thoughts will be much appreciated as othrewise I'll stuck with it...

bump for any lawyers out there...

My colleagues who've moved in-house from private practice are referred to as 'Legal Counsel', which they seem happy about. Their role is commercial advisory and contract drafting, as well as pure legal advice.

Legal Counsel - Commercial Contracts?

how about "Commercial Counsel"?

Are you a solicitor? Will you still have a practising certificate? You might need to have a practising certificate if you call yourself anything with legal in the title.

Tell me what the job is, not got a clear picture so far.

If it is not a legal role, why Counsel, exactly?

Assume that someone mentioned making sure that you stay on the role even if you don't have a practising certificate as it can be hard to get back on if you change your mind about the less-legal role.

What do you think the problems are with the job title they have offered you?

Quattro - I'm guessing from the original title that it involves managing existing long term contracts (I know a number of outsourced service providers, for example, employ commercial contracts managers to manage their big deals on a semi-commercial, semi-legal basis - combination of commercial/relationship management but also monitoring compliance with agreements, managing change control processes etc.). Think crumpet is concerned that "commercial contracts manager" might sound "junior" in the ears of anyone seeking to employ her in a more purely legal role in the future, so wants the title to sound a bit more "mainstream legal" given that there is a legal component.

or I might have missed the point

Ooh, responses - thanks! The role is not a pure legal role - legalalien has caught most of it (although it's not that I need to sound mainstream legal as I'm happy to justify the reasons for the move etc - it is purely seniority I'm afraid), but there is also a drafting, negotiating, training element too, so it's a bit of a hybrid. I see it as a toe in the water of the commercial world, with a safety net of the legal element, so I could go back into a pure legal role in future if I chose,

Now then, what about "commercial & legal manager" or "commercial services manager"? (NB there is also a separate legal team, so it can't be "legal counsel" etc, which in any event would incorrectly describe the role)

Sorry, unanswered questions: I am a solicitor, would intend keeping my pracising certificate, but could not call myself Counsel in this role. Have quite a number of year's PQE under my belt so have certain expectations as to the seniority of an in house counsel job if I went back in a year or two's time, hence the concern about "contract manager"

at crumpet...sometimes I just dream of doing something completely different but can't really see how legal skill would be useful... ah doing something useful instead of processing contracts which in any event probably won't be read unless there is a dispute...

just a thought - but do you think it will really be necessary to include your formal job title on your CV in the future, rather than a description of what you're actually doing? If not, then I'd just go with the same title as the other CCM (assuming he or she is doing the same thing).

and FWIW i like commercial & legal manager better than commercial services manager.

how about "manager - commercial/legal"?

Hi
I once made up the job title "VP Business Affairs" for myself lol. It was a director level role in an american financed wedish comapny hence the VP. And although I was responsible for the legal function, it was also a wide-ranging commercial role. Sort of like commercial director. Perhaps Business Affairs Manager would reflect your job?

Alternatively the BBC had a department called Commercial Legal (which was the more strategic business -focussed legal department, as opposed to the Intellectual Property department which did the day to day dull rights and licensing stuff.
So...Commercial Legal Manager?

I agree, I'd stay well away from Commercial Contracts - sounds like a gimps job

Ah, I was once in the commercial & legal affairs dept within that same BBC... Hadn't thought of business affairs mind you - suppose I was trying to stick as closely as poss to the original.

Might be worth a go. Though at present it looks as if it is falling down around my ears. Due to their buggering about I'm not likely to join in time for this year's share allocation, which is close to the straw breakign the camel's back - I've been able to compromise on other areas but not sure if I can throw this into the mix as well.

ooh bloody hell I might know you
I worked in a firm which was external legal adviser to that dept and worked a LOT with JV (still keep in touch with her, we try and lunch every so often!)

Oh dear I'm sorry about the job though. It is always v stressful trying to work out what is best re career changes...