Can an employer refuse to pay?

[Lemonsandslime]

Hello

Regular poster but name and details changed.

I work in a cafe, we open 9-2 on Saturdays. On Saturday our town had an event that the cafe owners thought might increase visitors to our cafe, and as such decided to open til 5 (we do this occasionally when there's local events on)

The owners couldn't work til 5 so two relatively new members of staff were asked to and agreed. However, they didn't leave the place clean (they aren't normally unsupervised and wouldn't usually be responsible for cleaning). The owners came in this morning and were unhappy at the mess left - for what it's worth, it took 1 person 5 minutes to clean up before the cafe opened.

The employers have now said they'll be docking the pay of the two employees as they didn't tidy up, and have said they'll be paid for 2hrs over time and not the full 3.

Can they do this?

Thanks!

That’s lousy.

No, of course they can’t.

Well, of course I knew they couldn't. They worked the hours agreed. If the didn't do a good enough job, that's surely for them to deal with in a supervision/disciplinary or whatever but not just to dock their pay.

Can anyone link to legislation that confirms this, I'm going to fight for them to get their full pay as I believe the two staff involved will just put up with getting a reduction in pay.

Does their contract mention a relevant deduction could be applied eg for non- completion of specific tasks?

If so, it may be permitted:
www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay

If there is nothing relevant in writing they should not be making the deduction

They're entitled to be paid for whatever has been worked. Failure to do so could result in the employer being taken to employment tribunal for unfair deduction of wages. The employer has 3 months to lodge this claim and should do so with the employer informally in the first instance (ideally in writing)

Tbh if this isn't affecting you (are you one of the employees affected?) then you should stay out of it. The employee can contact ACAS for advice if they need to

Well, of course I knew they couldn't.

Then why did you ask the question?

Because I wasn't 100% with the law regarding this, I was pretty certain they had to be paid but wanted confirmation. I never thought they could do refuse to pay, but you know, I've been wrong before 🤷

I shouldn't support my colleagues if they are unfairly paid?

Colleague: Hey Lemons, I don't think I will be paid for all the over time I did on Saturday as we didn't fully tidy up.

Me: Ah shucks, sorry nothing to do with me.

🤔

The real answer (as opposed to the blanked "no they can't" up thread) is that it depends on what is in their contract. If their contract allows the employer to make a deduction for failing to clean the cafe, they can do so. However, if they haven't been given a copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation, the employer cannot make this deduction.

National Minimum Wage may be relevant. If they stop pay are they still being paid NMW for the hours worked?

If pay is being deducted due to something the employee has done (or failed to do) and their contract says they are liable for it, this can legally take them below NMW.