Dh is working for an agency -please answer a number of questions I have.

[Oblomov]

Dh quit his job as an Operations Manager last week.
I am pleased as old job treated him awfully.
He started a new job on friday, less than 1/2 mile for our house.
Great. For an agency. They agreed rate over the phone.It is a temporary postion.

Now contract (being operative word, sign the agency form !!) has come through. Basic pay is less than agreed rate - it INCLUDES holiday pay - Question 1 - Is this allowed ?

Plus they ask for 2 weeks notice ?
Q2 how can they do this, on a temp postiiton. It was never discussed before.

Q3 - an aside, but - Am I right in thinking that a salary, within the EU, is assumed to be 37.5 hour week , unless staed otherwise ? Just wondering how you know whether to calculate an hourly rate based on a 37.5 or 40 hour week.

Finally, this hourly rate is very low, not what dh normally earns. Then the new boss says she wants him to do loads more things - not in the job description.
Dh says - in a more professional way that how I am describing it here - " I will if you pay me £xx.xx per hour - my normal rate, I am not doing it for £xx.xx I am being paid through the agency. I am not giving you the benefit of my 20 years Managers experience for the agency rate of £xx.xx"
But he was introuduced to the company through the agncy.
Can he invoice them directly for consultancy without either he or companay getting into trouble/ having to pay an introduction fee ?
The job she really wants him to do, is a much higher one than job description.
Can you get away with saying I am doing the job of Warhouse manager for agency. Plus, She is employing me , on consultancy basis, for .....higher position of Operation Manager. = Q4

Would appreciate advice.

The holiday pay thing - yes they can. Is it Hays? They are the only agaency I know of that still do this, I looked into the legalities when I worked through them last year.

The 2 weeks notice - yes I would think they can, because temp doesn't mean anything other than not permanent, I did a temp job but it was temp with no end date so I had to give notice if I wanted to leave before they were ready for me to.

I would suggest that he re-negotiate the pay with them, I started the job I had, discovered that the Company were paying £12 per hour for me but I was on £7 inc holiday pay. I spoke to my boss at the company and told her I couldn't afford to work for that, then called the Agency and told them they either increase it or I would have to think seriously about leaving. They took a cut in their commission and I got an increase in my hourly wage.

if the company employ him direct they will have to pay the agency a commission fee

Thanks Pillock. No, it is not Hays.
It is a poxy little agency called Copperfield, in Chertsey - they are useless !

Why can't company, just accept an invoice, for consultancy, from dh, for a different job.
The job they want him to do, is different / higher than the advertised agency job.

Blonde he doesn't want to be employed by them (company, not agency). He just wants to do some different work at a much higher hourly rate. Can he not invoice them direct ?

They wouldn't be able to employ him direct in any capacity (temp, perm or consultant) without incurring a charge from the agency for the introduction - there will be something in their terms with the agency about it and it's generally quite punitive if you try to do it on the quiet and they find out.

because the agency introduced him to them and it will be in the T&C that the company agreed to

as anna said, even as a consultant invoicing the company the agency will want their fee

There'll be a time period that it applies for even after he's finished this stint with them too, I would have thought.

pillock I work for Hays and may I explain how the pay thing works.

Up until Jan 1st, Hays paid 'rolled up' holiday pay. EG the rate you were quoted included 10.17% for holiday pay (eg 24 working days) However if you took a day off you were NOT paid for t, as you had already accurred the money. The reason for this is that it allowed the temp the choice of taking holidays whenever they liked and as many as they liked - it gave the power to the temp.

New European Working Time Directives have come into force - as from 1st Jan this year, which mean agencys can NO LONGER pay holiday pay to the temp. They have to take days off and get paid for them. This means the temps are now earning less per hour than before.

When I discuss this with a new candidate I explain 2 things

1 - the rate I will quote them is the 'PREMIUM RATE' which includes 10.17% for holiday
2 - the rate as they will see it on their payslip is PREMIUM RATE , LESS HOLIDAY PAY = BASIC PAY. As the holiday pay is being accured every hour they work.

This is NOT advantageous for the temp as it means th we are FORCED To keep 10.17% back and 'save' it in a holiday fund, which the temp then needs to cliam. A real pain in the arse, also we (hays) instead of the temp are now earning interest off thsi sum!!

Other agencies have worked this way beofre, but think about it - THEY were effectively earning interest of |YOUR earnings, we were allowing the temps to make a choice.

ALL good consultants shoudl explain this, if they don't then complain to their Office manager/Regional director as your DH should NOT have been misled like this.

The second point I'm afraid is difficult, your dh agreed a role and agreed an hourly rate for that role, below his usual level of competence/experience. The client is now taking the piss by asking your DH to do addititional tasks beyond the spec. I would expect a temp of mine to tell me this, and for me to renegotiate with the agency.

Personally I am not a fan of a massively over qualified candidate taking a role beneath them as this often happens.

Also if the agency finds out about the situation and the 'consultancy' thing they will be massively pissed off.

If I were your dh I would yalk to the agency, explain the situ and discuss an increase in the hourly rate. This keeps the agency on side and ensures that they wil make sue your dh is in work longer.

Any questions, I will try to help.

Hi Oblomov. I work for an employment agency and can offer the following advice.
Q1 yes it's legal to include holiday pay into your hourly rate. Tha majority of agencies do this as it's far less complicated than any other way via an agency
Q2 If this is a temp role, you do not have to give notice. That is the beauty of temporary work - on your side OR the company who you are doing the work for. This is why you should actually being paid a higher rate than your normal salary - to balance out the fact that the company could say - actually, we don't need you tomorrow.
Q3 - this falls within the working time directibve and chances are on the contract signed by your DH, it will have said somthing about "hours may vary" or "Yes, I agree to working more than 37.5 hours a week"
Q4 there is new legislation that came in a coule of years ago that states that companies have a six week time period before they can take on staff directly. This is NOT commonly discussed as of course it would put a lot of employment agenices out of business.

Having read all this I would talk to the agency about the hourly rate - as this WILL be negoitable. The agency will have their markup and this can be reduced if your DH kicks off enough.

HTH, and let me know if you have any questions.

xx

Thank you very much both Crunchie and Auntiespan.
The agency bloke did not explain this at all to dh, it ws just agreed on the phone that his hourly rate was £xx.xx

crunchie, what about the notice, as auntyspan says in her answer to Q2
This is nonsense surely ?
And as she says dh should be on a higher rate if there is no scecurity, surely ?

i work for an agency FT and i get holiday pay inc in pay

you can either save up holiday pay as use it when you are not working (ie on holiday!) or jsut absorb it into pay as normal (i assume he gets paid by the hr)

of course you need a notice, everyone does, its normal

my FT hours are 36 per week, so dont assume its 37.5

no you dont get extra pay as there is no security, you signed up to wrk for an agency, the risk is obvious

i relly like working for an agency, i feel i ahve more control than if i wasnt

My DH has done a lot of contract work - he did it for nearly 4 years and he has always had a notice period as much for his benefit as the companys. Usually it is a week but once it was as much as a month.

One thing he has learnt is never to start a job without seeing the written contract, even if it means delaying the start of the job for a day or two. You can renegotiate whilst on the job - he frequently has - but it is easier if the basics are in place before you begin.

Beware though, of trying to squeeze the agency out of the picture and arranging to be paid direct by the company. The agency will find out and they will still be due their fee. Also, you may well have burnt your bridges with that agency and they won't want to find you another job once the current job has come to an end.

The agency I work for - we can take a temporary booking for a fortnight, and then it can be cancelled after 3 days - there is no commitment on EITHER party and this is understood by both parties.

Don't get this confused with contract work which of course is different, as it involves a contract for an agreed amount of time, usually something longer than a month.

Niecie, this is not my concern. We will never use this agency again. They are used to providing low skilled work, to the local community.
Dh has his CV on Executive websites, and Operations Managers / Managing Directors websites - he is hoping to get interviews in the next few weesk through those.
this agency has admitted that they are "not used to a client of dh's calibre".
I can't accept that they want a 2 weeks notice, from dh to them, if he decides to leave, nothing about giving him 2 weeks notice - how convienient !, not for a temp postion.

but oblomov he woul d have to give 4 wks notice if it was any other regular job. another employer would understand if this did happen

or he COuDL try discuussing it with agency and get a shorter notice...?

Realistically what on earth would they do if he didn't give 2 weeks notice? Our temps at work leave all the time without notice.

nailpolish, this is the whole point of temporary postions surely. No notice required on either side. The client can cancel at anytime. Dh knew this and he was fine, bc it suited and he told her(boss) that he wanted to be able to receive calls from agencies, whilst at work, and go to interview, at anytime, with short notice, and woman (from the company, she interviewed him, agency did not interview him) said yes fine, becasue she knew she was getting an ops manager for lower than a warehouse managers salary.

I took a temporary job once, when the previous person, got offered a perm job, phoned the agency on the fri night, they started their new job on the monday morning, and I carried on their temp role on the monday morning - I thought that was the whole point of temp postitions ?

llareggub, EXACTLY, temp postions collapse, on either the company, the agency or the staff side, all the time.

there is a difference between a temp postion and an agency position

i work for an agency but its long term, in different posts for different places, bu through the agency

obv different to your dh

10 mintes ago ds(4) came and asked if he could go to bed - I know this is not related to this thread, but I am so shocked. He is already asleep !!!!!

Thats what I was thinking Nailpolish. Yours is a 'proper job'
It is not the same at this temp position through TWATY* agency