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Original poster

Civil Service Progression advice

30 replies

User65412 · 16/02/2023 21:09

Hi,
I've been offered a job in the civil service within the HR department of the ONS.
I'm quite keen to move into HR but this will be a big pay cut for me and I want to know if, and how easily, I can work my way up?
The job is HEO level.
I'm from a completely different sector in which I'm senior management and earn 45k. I'd want to get back up to this in a couple of years and hopefully surpass it within 5 to 10! Or, if I get the HR experience required I could perhaps move into the private sector in several years?
I just saw on another thread that it took someone 25 years to get to 45k in the civil service (presumably starting at the bottom of the scale) and this got me worried that there's not much scope for fast progression.
Any civil servants about that can enlighten me?

OP posts:
OhwhyOY · 16/02/2023 21:20

Hey, so it depends on the department you are in (not sure about ONS) but generally there is shortage of good HEOs as they are constantly being promoted. Italso depends where you are in the country, if London opportunities abound and it's also easy to move between departments if yours is one where progression is slow. In other areas of the country it can be trickier as there tends to be fewer senior posts on offer, though that has definitely shifted in recent years. Getting back to 45k plus should be fine but be prepared to be stuck at that level for a long time after unless you do jump to the private sector as pay rises are basically non-existent except through promotion, you're lucky to get 2%....

89ghud · 16/02/2023 21:31

I came into the civil service 3.5 years ago as an SEO on £35k, got my G7 18 months ago and have just been offered a G6 role at £65k. I have a specialism that helps (don't know about HR sorry) but the main key has been flexibility, being willing and able to change organisations, I'd still be an SEO if I'd stayed in my first department as there wasn't much internal progression for my specific role, but lots across the civil service as a whole.

Cairnmum · 16/02/2023 21:33

Hi there,
I'm HEO level in the CS also in HR. It took me 12 years to get here HOWEVER, thats because I was admin for years having a great time with no responsibility or prospects ha! Since I have been in this role I have moved around several times and found it really easy to progress. If you want to, you will move on quickly. I hope that helps and if you do choose to come to the CS enjoy meeting some interesting folk ☺️

Scottishskifun · 16/02/2023 21:37

If UK govt civil service job then there isn't a pay progression only promotion up through the system by applyingfor more senior roles. Its false advertising on the job adverts!

TheUndoing · 16/02/2023 21:39

In your shoes I’d look to start as an SEO. There are no real prospects of internal progression, you’d have to apply for promotion to earn more etc.

23NameChange · 16/02/2023 21:41

I went from HEO to G6 (£70k) in 7years. You need to work hard on improving your competencies, i took on lots of different projects to work with different people and gain skills and experience, volunteered for opportunities. I didnt need to move depts but if you are prepared to move around then that also helps. I don't think what you want is unrealistic.

Original poster
User65412 · 16/02/2023 21:43

@Scottishskifun yes, thank you! I meant progression via promotion. It's unfortunate that there's no other progression.
Thanks everyone. I live quite rurally and this job is mostly remote working. I'm wondering if the higher up you get, the less opportunity for remote working there is? So much to think about. Huge decision for me.

OP posts:
theswoot · 16/02/2023 21:49

I’ve done AO to SEO in 7 years and am on track for Grade 7 hopefully this year which will be 8 years. Although at a lower level than you I took a pay/responsibility cut to join the civil service and haven’t regretted it. I brought a different perspective moving from the private sector and moved roles and departments a lot to broaden my experience.

Original poster
User65412 · 16/02/2023 21:50

Thanks @TheUndoing . I haven't had any success with SEO roles. I guess I was thinking HEO to 'get my foot in the door' and then I could apply for a promotion fairly quickly, or is that not possible?
There is no more pay progression or promotion available in my current job so I'd be happy to take a short-term pay-cut for long term gain.

OP posts:
89ghud · 16/02/2023 21:52

wondering if the higher up you get, the less opportunity for remote working there is?

In my experience it's the opposite, maybe not SCS, but G7-6s have had a more lax approach to enforcing hybrid on us, harder to replace (in my organisation at least, in the more specialist roles especially, have to compete with private sector).

89ghud · 16/02/2023 21:53

You have to pass probation, usually 6 months (not always) but after that you can apply for other roles, higher grade is fine.

Uni68 · 16/02/2023 22:07

Did a similiar thing last year but local gov. The drop in pay at the moment has been a bit hard to handle at times so be prepared for that. When interviewing for the job as I was over qualified I asked about job progression (basically how old is the team) and most are retiring in two years so I just need to grin and bear it but that would be my advice to see if anything may open up short term. That being said I was offered a promotion after 5 months in the job in another team and turned it down as to get back to previous earnings and a bit extra to make the drop in pay worth while I’d need to progress another grade which there isn’t scope for in that team.

Original poster
User65412 · 16/02/2023 22:14

Thanks @23NameChange that's really helpful! And well done. So you applied for those promotions within your department?
Thanks @Uni68 , the pay cut is a huge worry. Especially with 2 children in nursery for next couple of years which is frankly crippling. I'm so torn on what to do.

OP posts:
Americansmoothy · 17/02/2023 01:42

@User65412 getting in is the hard part, take the HEO role pass probation and look for promotion opportunities. If you can afford it and want HR you may have to apply at HEO level then do a level transfer followed by promotion.

Polarbearyfairy · 17/02/2023 06:27

Do you have HR qualifications or a CPID of some sort? If note, are ONS going to put you through it? You'll need that to progress in HR.

I did HEO to G6 in around 2 yrs, I had external experience and chose the right jobs for my SEO and G7 jobs to get me to G6.

devildeepbluesea · 17/02/2023 06:33

I came in as an SEO 3 yrs ago, been a G7 for a year (also in HR). I don’t have qualifications, going through CIPd qualified by experience currently. Eyeing up G6 roles now.

Provided you’re willing to move organisations there’s lots of opportunities. I wfh for about 70% of my time but I’m very close to the office and choose to go in more than I need to.

23NameChange · 17/02/2023 07:53

User65412 · 16/02/2023 22:14

Thanks @23NameChange that's really helpful! And well done. So you applied for those promotions within your department?
Thanks @Uni68 , the pay cut is a huge worry. Especially with 2 children in nursery for next couple of years which is frankly crippling. I'm so torn on what to do.

Thank you! Yes, all those were in one department. My longest stint was as an HEO but that was during the recruitment freeze years under Cameron / Osborneso there literally wasnt an SEO vacancy for years. It isn't the same now and there are always lots of opportunities coming up.

Yazoop · 17/02/2023 08:11

I can in as HEO from another sector and was G7 in 18 months. It can be done! Part of quick progression so getting stuck in and getting a broad range of experience so you can build up your competencies / behaviours - ultimately that’s what’s being tested in applying for promotion opportunities (and that’s the only real route for increasing your salary, and why - as someone above said - there is a dearth of good HEOs as they all go for promotion asap for financial reasons).

The civil service career framework - for good and bad - is a very distinct beast that It is worth getting to grips with early. So when you start, recommend being open to opportunities to building your experience internally, including where they might not be strictly in your remit, and building your network of people who can help you. There is an open culture in terms of career development as people do tend to move around - so helpful to talk to people in more senior grades and build relationships where they can look at your competency behaviours and give you feedback.

It is easier in London as more roles - but that’s changing quite a lot now with most roles having other regional options and with more hybrid models.

Yazoop · 17/02/2023 08:12

*I went in as HEO (not “I can in”!)

dizzygirl1 · 17/02/2023 08:18

Came in at AO?(E1) level nearly 7 years ago, now SEO and interview for Grade 7 on Tuesday. My experience has been build relationships, people point you in the direction of roles upcoming.

MabelMoo23 · 17/02/2023 10:00

This is really helpful as I have a final informal chat for a HEO role next week (I’m from outside CS) so I know that to progress you have to go up through the grades, but when people jump from grade to grade , do they change organisations as well (like DfT to BEIS or HMRC for example) or tend to stay within their own org ? Or both ?

I’ve had to step down in my career due to being made redundant in covid and then having to take a lower paid job due to husbands job and and kids so this would be a pay rise compared to what I’m on now but still lower than my “old career “ so definitely looking to progress so this is all really good advice should I be successful.

so to clarify, everything is about getting stuck in and improving your competencies/behaviours that are listed on success profiles?

23NameChange · 17/02/2023 14:59

@MabelMoo23 you can do either, it will just depend on what vacancies are in your current dept. I've had all my promotions in the same dept i joined as an HEO. Others i know have taken promotions in different depts (so eg HMT to DfT to DWP to HO etc).

Poblano · 17/02/2023 16:50

Watching with interest.

I'm about to join the CS from outside, at SEO level. I would very much like to progress to G7 and maybe G6 level.

All of the conversations that I've had with my future line manager seem to be fully expecting me to only be with them for a short time as I go for promotion, but it's hard to gauge how easy that would be in actuality.

Original poster
User65412 · 17/02/2023 20:41

Hi @Poblano , are you completely new to the role or do you have training in a specific field? I feel like all the SEO roles I look a ask for experience in a particular area that I just don't have.
@dizzygirl1 best of luck for Tuesday!
@Yazoop 18 months 😯 that's fantastic - well done! Was it a complete career change for you or do you have training in a specific field?
I just feel like I need a looking glass. I'm afraid of jumping ship and then being stuck at sea. Imposter syndrome is taking over eventhough I know I would be good. I'm very ambitious and have faith in myself but it's just the unknown isn't it!?

OP posts:
Poblano · 17/02/2023 21:05

@User65412 it's a professional role which I'm qualified for but it's my first real experience in the role. So a bit of a leap!