Male counterpart now paid more for similar work - unfair or just the game we have to play?

[DiceCat]

I work in IT in the public sector, in a senior role. I overheard my colleague (because he was talking very loudly) saying that he's been given a pay rise. I also know that he was unhappy with his pay (because he's complained to me about it). He's also been given a new, grander title. There are 4 of us at the same level who (until v recently) shared a boss, and I know that the other 2 started on a higher salary than I did. Some simple detective skills shows that all 3 of my equivalent male colleagues are now earning more than I am. This one has a number of large teams and a lot of responsibility. However, I have even more responsibility and more/larger teams to manage (and have done for the past few years). Some recent changes mean that we no longer share a manager. Nevertheless, I'm annoyed that I haven't been approached by my employer to discuss salary. Surely the gender pay gap can only be addressed once employers start to recognise that men are more likely to ask for a rise than women? I have asked my new boss for a rise, but in his eyes there isn't much discrepancy because in his area he has others (women) reporting to him who earn less than I do. My DH says that 'its just the game you have to play' and that I should just keep asking and then that's problem solved. But I'm annoyed that this situation is happening at all. Shouldn't my senior leadership team be looking at pay discrepancies and ensuring that there isn't a pattern of women being paid less than men? Or is it normal for the EDI policies to be mostly lip-service?

I would make a case for a pay rise and brush off your CV. Be prepared to leave for a better wage elsewhere.

In my mind, of companies aren't interested in closing the wage gap through proper pay rises, they can pay the price through recruitment costs - this is usually about a year's wage for professional roles.

I've trained DD to ask and I always do. Yes employers should check but turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas.

Play hardball. Especially in IT.

Companies will always try to get away with paying the least they can and in general men are better at asking for pay rises. Make your case but don’t mention your colleagues. Instead look for evidence of similar roles and say whilst you don’t want to leave you feel undervalued.

Yes, I could prepare to play hardball and prepare to leave. Especially in IT. I have some difficulties at home which means that I'm not in the right frame of mind to think about changing jobs at the moment. I also recognise that I have lots of benefits through my employer. That said, these benefits are for all employees so not relevant when comparing between colleagues. I know that some companies actively discourage people to share salary information - probably for this reason - but I feel really angry that this approach disadvantages certain genres of people (and it's not always women, it can be anyone that doesn't naturally put themselves first). I've asked for the rise, I will keep asking, and I can probably sort this out for myself. I'm just wondering whether this situation is common, and whether my DH's observation that it's 'just the game you have to play' is really appropriate when it's the public sector, public money, and supposedly society cares about addressing the gender pay gap. Surely we've moved past it being a game and are now ready to acknowledge that it's blatant sexism? Or is this a militant feminist viewpoint?

How can facts be a militant anything? The pay gap is demonstrably true.

The thing is, if men ask for a pay rise and women don’t, is it sexist to give pay rises to people who ask?

Email your boss and HR and say you’re concerned about the disparity between the male wages and yours, in an equal role.

This. Also your husband is a douche for saying it’s the game we play. What game is he on about? He should have your back on this

Is the husband being a douche or is he encouraging her to play the game too?

Is DH saying it's the game you have to play- the gender gap won't close by itself. You need to keep asking for more money.

@HazardaGuest well only the OP can answer that but it’s a pretty douchey response to me. I would want a supportive partner to respond to me saying before anything else ‘that’s not fair’. I suppose to me, because as a man he is much less likely to ever be the victim of this kind of wage disparity, he doesn’t seem that concerned that his wife is being paid less than her colleagues

I read “play the game” as keep advocating for yourself and be prepared to leave if they’re unwilling to pay you the going rate. No entity pays more than they think they can get away with. It’s naive to think individual managers give a shit about the gender pay gap when they’re also trying to juggle budgets.

I was underpaid for years but nothing happened until I took my ownership of it. I benchmarked other salaries with competitors (based on people I was friendly with in the industry) and put it to my senior colleagues, with a follow up phone call to say that I was prepared to look elsewhere if they didn’t come up to scratch. The end result was a 33% increase in my salary within 12 months. That sounds good but in hindsight I should never have let it get to the stage where I was so underpaid.

@DiceCat it is nothing to do with the sex(gender) pay gap which is about having an even split of males and females at each level in an organisation I.e. average pay of all females vs average pay of all males. This is addressed through recruitment/promotion policies etc.

This is an equal pay issue, normally if you are public sector you are recruited to a grade start on the pay band minima and all get the same pay awards making an equal pay claim difficult. If he has been given an in year pay award that is unusual and I would advise you to ask HR for the pay policy including in year awards like (name colleague) received. Then talk to your TU rep and either put in a business case for an in year award or ask HR to explain the pay difference between you and your male colleagues. State male colleagues and name them.

I am in IT too, had been paid significant lower than male colleagues doing the same job for 4 years until I left. Now I am almost 20k more than my old job, almost equal pay as my colleagues!

Private sector.

Yes. There's well-documented evidence that a woman asking for a pay raise is perceived much less benevolently than a man doing the same - as in, she's overstepping. So clearly it's not just socialization and women being to coy to ask - women are actually being rational when they hesitate to push too much.

OP you should not have let it get to this point. You said you were underpaid before this 3rd colleague announced his pay rise... so you could have acted on that earlier. Use the salary benchmarking from recruiters. IT is a shortage area, don't be shy.

They are never going to recognise it themselves. They will have justifications of why it is like that. I've never had a pay rise without asking and I bet it's the same for men. Very few employers will go through the hassle and expense of giving more money unless they have to.

You don't have to prepare to leave until you've asked and they've said no.

Bring your case to them. Only mention Equal pay if you need to. No-one likes to think of themselves as a sexist/racist, even if they are, so I wouldn't throw that at them upfront.

That would be my advice. If they come up with excuses, and then flat out refuse, that is the time to raise concerns.

If this is public sector, you must know that people are not just given payrises, regardless of gender. There is a process, and you haven't used it. It is not your managers responsibility to get you to use the process - within budget restraints they have no interest in increasing their costs. So instead of whining about what other people get paid because they did use the process, get on with it.

If you'd read my post properly you'd have seen that I've said that I have asked for the rise (this being the process) and I will keep asking, and I can probably sort this out for myself. That wasn't the point of the post. The point was to have a discussion about whether people thought it was fair that the onus is on the marginalised group to address the pay gap. Yes, it isn't simply a gender thing, which is all the more reason why equal pay for equal work should be in everyone's interest, in the same way that toxic masculinity hurts other men as well as women. It's fine to contribute to the discussion respectfully, but perhaps read the original post properly before accusing people of 'whining'.

I think it's both — unfair and the game.

FWIW, I think you're going about it the right way(s) — it's a twofold process of kicking up a stink, but also asking awkward questions about what oversight is being applied to keep an eye on equal pay initiatives.

If you'd read my post properly you'd have seen that I've said that I have asked for the rise (this being the process) and I will keep asking, and I can probably sort this out for myself.

I read it properly thank you. In the public sector there are formal job evaluation processes. If you think your post is incorrectly graded then you submit an application for regrading. Asking for a pay rise isn't part of that process.

@Quveas I'm not going to spend my energy on arguing with you about a process, especially when you don't know the exact area of the sector I work in, nor the nuances such as bands within grades, market supplements etc.

Perhaps just take it as red that since I'm in a senior role (which you'll know, given that you've apparently read my post properly) then I understand the process sufficiently not to have overlooked something so simple.

The more relevant comment I made was about contributing to the discussion respectfully. We can all go around calling other people 'whiners' when they question the status quo. That doesn't help drive change or improvements though.

@Quveas & @DiceCat
Whilst the public sector does have structures in place to ensure jobs are correctly evaluated and pay is within a range it relies on managers, particularly senior managers, to consistently apply the rules.

The situation the op describes is one I recognise at senior level the rules are not strictly followed as decision makers are a law unto themselves and despite being told what they are doing isn’t permitted/breaks the law etc. they still instruct you to give the pay award.

That is why I always get an instruction like that in writing along with my advice not to do it. It’s amazing when they are caught out the first reaction is to say why didn’t you tell me and I forward the email!

@DiceCat please take my advice and focus on equal pay not gender pay gap. They are two very different things and only one will get you a pay rise.

Hi @DiceCat how do you work with your colleagues to collectively address gender pay gaps in your teams? That may be an alternative way in to the conversation.