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Original poster

Employer refusing Co-worker reference

28 replies

HedgeWitchy · 06/02/2023 18:04

I am returning to work after a long time with children. I was a teacher. Every senior leader I’ve ever worked with has retired or left teaching, I have no personal contact details for them (some I believe are dead or retired on mental health grounds). One is left, that is my first reference.

The only reference I can give for my second reference is someone online managed. This has been refused, as they want a reference from someone senior to me.

What doesn’t help is I worked 15 years in the same school, with only the headteacher senior to me. One died, one moved abroad. I can’t even get a very old reference. I’m old, and mostly my senior managers were older! All retired/ dead.

How should I reply to this refusal of a reference? I’m feeling stuck

OP posts:
PollyAmour · 06/02/2023 18:06

As you have been out of the workplace for so long, will they accept a personal reference instead of a professional one? There must be loads of people in your position.

Lougle · 06/02/2023 18:07

Can the LA confirm your post and dates of employment?

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 06/02/2023 18:13

Lougle · 06/02/2023 18:07

Can the LA confirm your post and dates of employment?

It was a faith school, so the direct employer. The priest, chair of governors, head… all long gone.
Ironically the LA is the new employer… they do factually know who I am obviously.

OP posts:
Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 06/02/2023 18:14

PollyAmour · 06/02/2023 18:06

As you have been out of the workplace for so long, will they accept a personal reference instead of a professional one? There must be loads of people in your position.

I’ve emailed to ask how to proceed.

OP posts:
good96 · 07/02/2023 13:35

Because you’ve been out of work for so long, I think a personal reference would be more suitable.

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 07/02/2023 13:40

I’ve explained what I can provide as the second reference

(Current volunteer role/ self-employement client/ personal)

and I got back that both references need to be from employment, in senior posts. They will require their name, job title/ work email address. The work colleague I provided, who is also still a personal friend was rejected as a reference.

My first reference is the only person who is still able to provide a reference on the terms they want.

I have replied that my second reference is not able to be the above, and clarified I have tracked people down to confirm this.

Ive asked how to proceed from here.

OP posts:
Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:10

They have replied to ‘ask HR for a reference’.
There is no HR department as it not a local authority school

OP posts:
unfortunateevents · 09/02/2023 10:24

Who manages the HR at your old school though? Someone must be looking after it, if you contact them they should have records of you working there with dates. The fact that the new employer have suggested HR sounds like they know they are not going to get the reference in exactly the form they have asked for as standard but (as you probably are already well aware) for teaching they absolutely need to be able to account for all your time with no gaps to assure themselves that you weren't mouldering in a South American jail for a couple of years!

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:44

It’s not a teaching role.

Ive also offered a reference from the volunteer position I have, one that involves a dbs and has a 7 year history. It is current

I’ve also offered a reference from the company I am a board director for, a 3 year history.

I’ve provided a reference from a school before I worked for for 9 years.

I don’t think a reference from a school I worked at many years ago provides any proof more than the above as to what I’ve been up to for the best part of the last decade. I could have spent the last 5 years in jail and they wouldn’t know…

HR when I worked there was the diocese, with then changed boundaries. I believe they now use a private company for HR. I’d be trying to chase down a HR that doesn’t exist anymore!

OP posts:
Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:47

Also they can have a reference from a personal still in post at the school!

OP posts:
Rummikub · 09/02/2023 10:47

My place only confirms employments dates in references.

Would LA be able to do that?

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:48

They also have asked the person to write the reference, wasting their time, before rejecting it. Despite me writing their job title on the form

OP posts:
Nimbostratus100 · 09/02/2023 10:50

just explain the situation to your prospective new employer and ask what they want you to do

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:50

Rummikub · 09/02/2023 10:47

My place only confirms employments dates in references.

Would LA be able to do that?

I was never employed by the LA.

OP posts:
stargirl1701 · 09/02/2023 10:52

Yes but the LA inherited the legacy of the school if they are now in running it. There should be personnel files either on paper or on a legacy server.

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:55

They are not now running it

OP posts:
wildseas · 09/02/2023 10:55

The reason that they are asking is because of safer recruitment good practise - if you have a google of that then you'll be able to see more info. They aren't looking for a "She was amazing at x, y,z " reference - they are literally just looking for proof that what you have put on your cv is true.

So, best thing to do is to roll your eyes at the burocracy and call up the school who you worked for before (even if its in a difference diocese/staff have changed/no body knows you). Explain what you need and ask them to provide it - they should be able to check records even if no one knows you personally.

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:56

The paper files for employees are destroyed due to gdpr rules after 7 years.
The school could confirm I worked there, but not give dates at this point.

The school are still the direct employer, but use a private company for HR now.

OP posts:
Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 09/02/2023 10:58

The very first thing I did was call the school. A lot. And the schools of former headteachers.

The school has a new head who has simply ignored contact. Rumours are he isn’t pleasant, and I think legally he can just not care. He didn’t employ me and has never heard of me. The staff turnover is nearly 100% and a few times over.

Im not being difficult, I have tried many times and in many ways to get this. But…

OP posts:
Rainbowshine · 10/02/2023 08:41

You can prove employment through other forms, payslips, P60s, etc. Do you still have your contract or any letters, correspondence from a pension provider?

The good recruiting practice allows you to use bank statements if you have been a stay at home parent, for example.

RatedAce · 10/02/2023 08:47

Sounds Kafkaesque

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 10/02/2023 09:52

Rainbowshine · 10/02/2023 08:41

You can prove employment through other forms, payslips, P60s, etc. Do you still have your contract or any letters, correspondence from a pension provider?

The good recruiting practice allows you to use bank statements if you have been a stay at home parent, for example.

I have offered. It’s quite an easily proved job, it’s still easy to find on many official websites my name and job title- such as charity commission reports, LA websites, school documents and policies I wrote. I was a safeguarding officer and write reports Teachers pension has records of my work history. …. There’s no issue of proof I’d say. Even a charity commission report has my reason for leaving as my child and a message of good luck from the governing body.

I can provide references from Co-workers, volunteer positions working with vulnerable people for years from official organisations, company references as a board director.

I just can’t get one particular role as a referee. But I’m hardly an unknown The Co-worker was the office manager and the person who did the employment checks, processed payroll etc, so aside from the head the nearest to HR I guess.

OP posts:
Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 10/02/2023 09:59

Tbh I’m considering withdrawing from the process, other opportunities have come up and the recruitment process so far is in its 10th week. References were sought and given in the 9th week, other checks have just started.

Usually I would honour an acceptance, but the mix of everything is both stressful and time waiting to earn.

OP posts:
WhatTrophy · 10/02/2023 10:14

Only the head can give a reference on behalf of a school, which makes sense, no one else would know about any safeguarding concerns etc.

The "school" should still be able to give arefetence based on its records even if staff who know you are no longer there. Even if it's only to confirm dates employed, which would tick a safer recruitment box. All the stuff about how wonderful you were as a teacher holds no weight anyway.

Ultimately, if you are unable to obtain references, which some people just can't, the new employer will have to do a risk assessment and decide whether to proceed. IME they always do.

Original poster
HedgeWitchy · 10/02/2023 11:31

WhatTrophy · 10/02/2023 10:14

Only the head can give a reference on behalf of a school, which makes sense, no one else would know about any safeguarding concerns etc.

The "school" should still be able to give arefetence based on its records even if staff who know you are no longer there. Even if it's only to confirm dates employed, which would tick a safer recruitment box. All the stuff about how wonderful you were as a teacher holds no weight anyway.

Ultimately, if you are unable to obtain references, which some people just can't, the new employer will have to do a risk assessment and decide whether to proceed. IME they always do.

Files are destroyed after 7 years under gdpr rules. This may be why the current head, who started 6 years after I left, is not answering- they have no way of verifying dates other than word of mouth. I guess there is potential a concern or disciplinary was raised, they would have no way of verifying this.
The previous headteacher to the best of my knowledge left on mental health grounds and moved abroad, but I can’t verify that.

OP posts:
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