Over 6 months sick-Can I get sacked?

[Karry74]

Hi all, appreciate anyone reading this and any advice you can give. Will try to keep it brief.

I've been off sick with depression, stress and anxiety for over 5 months due to personal and work related issues. Tried 2 different antidepressants which I couldn't get on with, now on an SSRI which I have taken in the past, but the side effects are relentless. It took around 6 months to work previously, been on it around 2 months at this point. Also taking propranolol for panic attacks. Barely left my flat in 5 months, almost to the point of agoraphobia. No desire to be around other people and purposely wait until later in the day when there are fewer people around to carry out basic chores like food shopping.

Spoke with occupational health once in the time I've been off. Made it clear that aside from personal factors, my current place of work is a major source of my mental health issues. This was 2 months ago. I asked not to have this on medical report, as I would explain this to line manager directly.

So a few days ago, finally speak to manager, mentioned aside from personal issues, it's also work related. She says this is the first we're hearing of it as it wasn't on your med report. Asked what the work related issues are, I remained tight lipped, said it was not the shifts or the work, simply a number of people I have to work with. It's a highly, highly toxic environment and I've been psychologically bullied, have confronted individuals myself rather than get management involved, but that failed. If I returned in my current mental state, I would have a panic attack, do a 180 and go straight back off. She explained unless we know which specific work related issues you have we can't make adaptations which would benefit you. A transfer to another location or different role seems highly unlikely.

In a few weeks I have a meeting with a higher up manager and an HR rep. If I tell them aside from personal factors, it's also work related, will I have to divulge everything? I've stayed tight lipped because I don't need the additional stress of grievances etc, and I know that no matter what adaptations are made, I would still have to work alongside these individuals.

After 6 months I get half pay and can't survive on that. Occupational health suggested severance may be considered if I feel I'm not well enough. Even if I got a transfer/another role, I fear my mental state and medication would force me back out of work. Can they sack me for any reason or would that be unfair dismissal? I'm not with a union so will not have a rep with me. I want to be well again and able to work, but can't put a time frame on when. I've considered paying for therapy if I'm entitled to severance, after 18 years at this company it should be enough for me to live on until getting ontop of my mental health and applying for new jobs.

Sorry if this is a long post, sincerely appreciate any advice.

Sorry you're going through thud. But I agree with the other comments. Unless you explain what the issues are with the work place the management and OT will be unable to make adaptions to support you returning to work
Plus 6 months is a long time off and the work place may have significantly changed since you were last actually at work.

Are other people also being psychologically bullied too? If people don't speak up then work place cultures don't change.

Tell HR everything which as much evidence as possible

Join a union, even if they can't give you full support

Not even public sector jobs will pay you forever whilst you don't attend work-if you don't return after 6 months you will drop to 1/2 pay-there's no way round it

You are shooting yourself in the foot here, in more ways than one.

Firstly, if you don’t tell HR what the issues are they are unable to assist you back into work. Clearly you’re not able to do the job and as such they have every right to dismiss you on capability grounds.

Secondly, another employer is highly unlikely to want to employ someone who has been off long term sick, has made unsubstantiated allegations against their previous employers and has been, or is on the verge of being, dismissed.

Of course they can sack you. If you don't tell them what the issues are they can't help and you can't go back. If you can't go back you can't expect them to not sack you. They are paying you to do a job. It is not unreasonable for them to expect you to do the job. If you tell them what the issues are they can do something about it. If you don't then what are you expecting to happen?

I was off for a year due to work related stress. I had anxiety, I attempted suicide and was diagnosed with PTSD. All shared with them via doctor and occupational health. I also had a union who helped me raise a grievance for discrimination, bullying, failure to make adjustments. I got a payout. Are you in a union? You should join one if not, although they might not be able to help at this late stage. The best thing to do for your mental health is look for another job. I'm a lot happier and healthier now. I did get my payout but even if I hadn't, I would still have left. You won't get anywhere by saying your mental ill health is the result, not the cause, of problems at work. No matter how many times I said this, they were fixated on me being the one who had to find a solution.

Forgot to add - you won't get anywhere without raising a grievance, you need to have things on paper, even if it doesn't make any difference, because you can evidence presenting the problem. you should also state your preferred solutions in the grievance. However as you've left is so long, I'd just find another job if I were you.

I'm a small business owner, and this would be my worst nightmare. You're not engaging in any level of honesty, and I don't understand how you expect things to be able to change unless you are open about it.
You either have to engage with them, or change jobs - but leaving your position unfilled isn't helping anyone.

I’m also unsure what you are trying to do. You can’t claim it’s work related and then refuse to tell them clearly the issue.

anyway to answer your question yes they can move to dismissal if you are not capable of doing the role and this won’t resolve any time soon.

id assume they are already going that route

www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-due-to-illness

They’re not going to pay you indefinitely for a job you say you cannot do but refuse to tell them how to make adjustments so you can do it.

Op are you considering severance like redundancy pay off? If so that’s highly unlikely. Generally it’s your notice period, as they are not making the position redundant

if you want to try to build a case that you have been bullied nd pushed out the workplace to get some cash, you need to explain the issue clearly and allow them to resolve it. No one will find in your favour if you don’t. The fact it’s been so long and you’ve never mentioned it us also against you

I’d be very careful as I don’t think severance means what you think it means, effectively they mean dismissal with maybe a months pay, depending on the contract

as said, I assume they already have lawyers involved .

OP work can't support you if you don't tell them what the problem is. You can't claim unfair dismissal if the let you go without you giving them the opportunity to make adjustments/ investigate the issues you're facing that are stopping you from working.
So yes of course they can terminate your contract. I'm not sure what else you expect them to do?

1. If you have depression, anxiety and stress, then I worry for you that posting on Mumsnet may not be good for your mental health.
2. You can’t expect your employer to pay you forever if you’re unable to ever return to work.
3. If you want to keep this job, tell HR absolutely everything and try to work with them to come up with a way to return.
4. If you don’t want to keep this job, work out what benefits you might be entitled to, maybe ask job centre ir do online assessment.
5. If they’ve paid you for six months without you working and then they follow the procedures to let you go on the grounds that you can’t work there, then I don’t see how you would have any case for unfair dismissal, I’d forget about that.
6. I’d suggest having a big think about what you want. Do you want to go back? Do you want to work at all? Is there a different department that you can transfer to?
7. I’m sorry this has happened and I know how incredibly hard it must be to deal with while depressed. I hope things improve for you in 2023.

This.

You can't expect to be off work indefinitely and to keep getting paid.

Why would you want to remain on the books of an company if you hate working for them - regardless of whether your reasons are justified or not.

They can't help you if you don't tell them what the problem is.

If I were you I'd hand in my notice before I was sacked. It'll take the weight off your mind, you'll recover, and be able to find a job that better suits you.