Bank Holidays & Part Time (Again...)

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

Just trying to work out if there is anyway to resolve this issue within my team. I'm not the manager but it is causing a lot of problems for the team as a whole. I don't think I'm missing any obvious solutions but you never know!

Andrea and Sarah work as a job share. Andrea returned from maternity and wanted 18.75 hours, she didn't mind which days but wanted half time. An advert was placed, interviews etc. and Sarah was successful. She chose to work Monday (7.5 hours), Wednesday (3.75 hours) and Friday (7.5 hours). This meant Andrea would work Tuesday (7.5 hours), Wednesday (3.75 hours) and Friday (7.5 hours). Andrea was happy, Sarah was happy. Everyone is a winner!

Sarah currently has 128 hours. FTE would be the equivalent of 34 days (the extra bank holiday for next year is included). Andrea has 147 hours. FTE would be 39 days, she has been with the organisation longer so has 5 long service days (pro rata).

Herein lies the issue..

Sarah has to take 8 of the bank holidays from annual leave leaving 60 free hours (8 full days)

Andrea has to take 1 bank holiday from allowance leaving 139.5 hours (just over 18.5 days, we round up so 19 full days to book)

Sarah isn't happy, the team are not happy as there is constant moaning about it.

Sarah can only swap her days on a bank holiday week if Andrea agrees to swap, which obviously she isn't going to do. Both of them won't be needed on the same day.

Is there absolutely any way around this?

I totally understand why Sarah is annoyed but the atmosphere is becoming unbearable. We have a team meeting soon and I'm trying to think of ways to get out of it!

I work FT and only get 20 days of choice due to shut down, I hate it.

Could Sarah work longer on her days in to accrue some time off for holiday? Obviously we don't know line of work, opening hours etc.

I use to work Monday 8-8 and so would lose 11 hours holiday on a bank holiday and even if worked it would still lose hours as we wouldn't be open as long. Fortunately I could work another day in the week to allow for holidays when I actually wanted!

I do think if you're bank holiday entitlement includes bank holidays, if it is pro Rota and you work a Monday (even part time) it should be calculated so you have the equivalent of 4 weeks off after bank holidays are taken away. If you are tues-Thursday you have no need for bank holiday entitlement, so shouldn't gain any days off!

If you are tues-Thursday you have no need for bank holiday entitlement, so shouldn't gain any days off!

That would be treating a part time worker less favourably. They are entitled to their "bank holiday" time off work.

Don't think anyone really is entitled to bank holidays off nowadays!

Sadly not. We need to be at work when others are at work.

She doesn't get much shy of 4 weeks, 3.2 weeks, knowing my workplace that would be rounded up to 3.5.

This is why choosing which days to work is crucial if you are going part time!

She should be told to stop making an atmosphere in the office!

Our leave is pretty generous. If we only had the minimum, she would only have 45 hours and this will go up over the next 5 years.

I know! Andrea was chuffed!

Could they do a rolling 2 week work pattern .... they both work Mondays but only every other week for example?

I used to work PT.... I got stuck with Mondays but had no choice and the bank holiday thing was a blimming pain!

I have a family member that does this, they just split bank holidays regardless of when they are. Works really well for them.

Andrea wasn't bothered what days, but now she has childcare in place so won't be able to chop and change.

Most people work part time because they have young children and would need childcare while at work. I don’t know a single provider that would take a child on alternate Mondays each week so can’t see this as a viable option.

Working PT Monday is a nightmare all round with a young child - you pay nursery for care when they’re closed and loose out on AL

I had to work PT inc Mondays too to get my foot in the door when I switched roles after having children then moved again where I could negotiate my days. It was a pain in the neck for those few years but it’s the way things are.

Thankfully part time worker regulations exist to prevent this kind of ignorance.

BH are PAID days off in contracts like this case. Why should someone working Tue-Thu miss out on paid leave because they don’t work on a Monday?

The way it is calculated is the fairest as far as pay goes. It is upto each organisation whether they can accommodate for individual to work another day in lieu to build up leave or end up with less choice of leave when they work Mondays. In this case, Sarah didn’t do her research before picking her days to work and has learnt the hard way

Has some pointed out to her that she gets paid for a full day on bank holidays where as the job-share doesn't get paid at all for them?

Hmm, I don’t think I’m in the “suck it up” camp. I think she can fairly argue that she is being forced to take a higher proportion of her leave as bank holidays, therefore she is not treated equally to full time colleagues.

My employer accounts for bank holidays on top of annual leave. They accrue similarly to leave. So if you work 0.5, you’re entitled to half the year’s bank holidays. So my job share partner who works on a Monday either works some bank holidays or takes them but then owes extra working hours, I don’t work on a Monday and so I get a couple of extra days leave to make up for the bank holidays I miss. Then both of us get our annual leave allowance.

(though I agree that working Mondays does come with issues, that’s why I’ve avoided it!)

Sarah should have checked the annual leave policies before she took the job unfortunately.
In my work it used to be that full-timers just got bank holidays off paid, but part-timers had the pro-rata allowance added to their leave and then had to take holiday on BH. So it wouldn't necessarily be obvious if you hadn't worked part-time before.
Now we have an online system where everyone gets the BH allowance added to their leave and the system automatically deducts those as holiday according to what your work pattern is. Any extra BH days are usually given as an extra paid day off (or day in lieu if you don't work that day).
One if the reasons I don't work Mondays is because if the bank holidays, it's just easier not to.

Solution 1: You switch the shared day from Wednesday to Monday. It sounds unlikely that Andrea would agree to that but might be something to consider for future job shares.

Solution 2: When Andrea takes leave, the team is presumably a woman down, offer Sarah these additional days in lieu of taking bank holiday leave. It will probably be a nightmare for recording times and leave but may feel fairer.

I think she can fairly argue that she is being forced to take a higher proportion of her leave as bank holidays, therefore she is not treated equally to full time colleagues.

She can’t. Adding BH onto the total annual leave then adjusting for PT is how it should be done and embedded into Regulations. This allows a PT worker to get equivalent amount of paid leave to anyone working FT. When I worked Mon and Fri, it worked against me and massively cut into my AL allowance. I worked Tue-Thu after that and had far more leave than I could use (more choice than a FT worker) but ultimately it means that if a FT worker gets 20 days AL + 8BH, someone working 0.5 WTE PT gets 14 days total and if a BH falls when they would otherwise be at work, it is deducted from their leave.

@prescribingmum

Yes paid childcare providers may not be so flexible.

However, unless I missed it, I hadn't seen anywhere where the op listed what the child care arrangements where. She could be using family, she could also be sharing the childcare with her DH so it's an avenue worth mentioning.
If it's a no, it's a no.

Personally, the one moaning (sarah?) needs to stop moaning. It wouldn't have taken much research to find out if you work PT and do Mondays you are at slight disadvantage with holidays. Not like she was forced to take those days. She had first dibs!

However, unless I missed it, I hadn't seen anywhere where the op listed what the child care arrangements where. She could be using family, she could also be sharing the childcare with her DH so it's an avenue worth mentioning.
If it's a no, it's a no.

I'm not 100% sure on her exact childcare arrangements. I know her DM does some care, but I'm not sure about the split of days.

Good suggestion upthread of working when Andrea is off. Definitely another one I'll suggest.

I haven't read the full thread, but your calculation appears to be wrong. You say Sarah has 128 hours entitlement. As she works 7.5 hours a day, you take 7.5 hours for each bank holiday. Taking off 8 bank holidays therefore leaves 68 hours for her to use as she wants - 9 days plus 1 hour. That is 8 hours more than your calculation.

Apart from this, your calculations are correct. The lack of days for Sarah to use as she pleases are a direct result of her working Mondays and Fridays. She is making the common mistake of thinking of bank holidays as being somehow different from other holidays.

Thank you. As I said, I'm not her manager so these are my calculations (based on what I've been told by both, and our contracts).

@princesssparklepants I completely agree with your last paragraph. When I went into my first PT role, I didn’t have the choice of days but took one for Mon/Fri just to get in and easily found the AL information. It wasn’t in my favour but got me into the organisation to then find another role that suited better.

As a manager, I would not facilitate the alternate Monday arrangement even if she did have childcare available as it is something that would be very difficult to recruit for in the future if one of them were to leave.
The aforementioned Mon/Fri role I worked still (5 years on) has a huge difficulty retaining staff because someone was silly enough to approve a job share with one person working Tue-Thu. No one wants two non-consecutive days which also leave you with less choice of annual leave. If it is a job share, at least 2 days should be consecutive otherwise I would not approve it

No it sounds like it is correct. Everybody, including the FT employees, that usually work on a Monday gets BH Mondays off and the time is deducted from their leave. Sarah chose to work Mondays, she needs to be told to stop complaining.