Calling all Project Managers

[DinaFox]

I am at the start of my career in project management (I'm currently a Project Officer), and I would like to progress. I do not have a PM qualification and am planning to start a course in the new year but am unsure which one would be best.

If you are a PM, which qualification do you have? Is there a specific industry you would recommend I look into? I'm currently in education but would be happy to change industries. I currently earn £30k but want to significantly increase that in the next decade.

@DinaFox yes they would

How did you get into IT project management? And did you do your PRINCE2 before or after landing your first role?

Another question: do most of the higher paid roles tend to be based in London? A lot of PM roles seem to be part-remote these days, does that work well?

I work 3 days in the office and 2 from home, nominally, but when I need to be on site a lot this can change - I do construction project management over quite a large geographic area, up to 2 hours drive between home and site if it's the furthest away one.

I'd say it can work, but it depends on the relationship between PM and PO - I have one who is amazing and basically knows what I'm thinking before I do, and with her we can manage with every other week if necessary, although I prefer to overlap with her at least once a week. My other PO on a different project is much more inexperienced and I try and overlap in the office with her a minimum of 1 day a week and preferably 2 if we can manage. She does 2 in and 3 at home, so we don't always manage.

A lot can be done remotely, but sometimes you can't replace a good day sat down picking over things to make sure everything is thought of

@WrongLife thanks for that, I'm actually not a huge fan of WFH but I don't want to move so it's likely I'll have a role where I'd need to do at least a few days a week WFH.

On a general point, it's so interesting to hear about how you all support your staff through training etc. I am very disappointed in my current company because the management is absolutely awful and they have no interest in developing people. They really struggle to recruit and retain staff and seem utterly perplexed as to why that might be. I am working on the basis that I want to move jobs every two years in order to progress, and I have been there just over a year now so am actively job hunting.

Yes I am also not a fan of WFH full time. 3 and 2 is OK

So our PO's get Prince2, space planning course (for working on smaller projects that we might not have an external architect), Microsoft training if needed, basic construction H&S course and then the online stuff which covers legionella, asbestos, work at heights and a few other bits. AutoCAD training if they show an interest and aptitude.

😂

And then a couple of our PO's have stepped up and done building surveying qualifications to become project surveyors. And one is just about to pass RICS from that and jump to PM. The training is funded if it's work related and I think you have to stay 3 years or pay it back.

Hello, I'm not sure that you do need the accreditation tbh. If you are a project manager and you are doing a project manager job then you can do project management. And you are by the sounds of it!

If your objective is to earn lots of money then I think IT project management is the way to go. Contractors can earn £400-£1000+ a day although of course contracting is precarious, you can be fired without notice and nobody cares about your development (which is fine once you're experienced, you're being hired for your skills, they want to not need to train you). IT project managers often use PRINCE2 principles but often have training or qualifications in ITIL, Scrum, Waterfall and Agile methodologies.

I'm a project manager with no formal project management qualifications but a lot of experience and I earn well. Happy to answer any questions. Good luck!

@WrongLife wow it sounds like you have a very supportive workplace. There are a lot of people who have stagnated where I work because they get stuck as there aren't any development opportunities, and I don't want that to happen to me.

My current role has added a lot to my CV which is great, but it's definitely time for me to move on.

I'm NHS and we use PRINCE2, and that is what we look for when we appoint. However in practice In not sure that it is necessarily the best. If I was doing project management training now I would be looking for something that has the best elements of PRINCE2 but was more practical to use.

@Blenheimprincess thank you for the information. Contracting is definitely something I'd be interested in once I'm fully established and have the experience. Can I ask you a few questions:

How did you get into project management?

If you have been on hiring committees, what do you look for in an interviewee? Would you be more willing to take on an individual without an accreditation but more experience versus one with limited experience but an accreditation?

Which sector are you in and would you recommend it?

I think the difficulty of not having any formal PM qualifications is that you can get thrown out at first sift, if it’s an essential or desirable requirement of the role. Then less experienced but qualified people might be selected for interview ahead of you. This is especially the case if sifting is done by someone outside the service being recruited to. Might be different now with difficulties in filling vacancies but to give yourself the best shot of getting in front of an interview panel, it’s definitely worth trying to secure a qualification.

I was a programme/project manager with zero qualifications in either it was all about experience of working on small projects and then bigger and bigger. I now have a masters in project and programme management. However, for the last 5 years it’s been all about agile and I now look after a team of Scrum Master with more agile expected in our company moving forward.

I would say that if you want a project management certification you need to be able to back it up with experience so that you can back it up in interviews.

IT program manager.

PMI qualified, plus scrum & ITIL certification.

Prince is mainly public sector projects. I would start with something general like PMI then build upon that with agile.

Hi @DinaFox

How did you get into project management?

A: I fell into it via operational management of large teams. I was involved in quite a few systems implementations so got to see various project management methods up close. Then I was approached to do a role which combined my operational experience with a project so I needed to do both and had to learn fast. I did a mix of operational roles and project roles but for the past 20 years it's mainly been project management.

If you have been on hiring committees, what do you look for in an interviewee?

A: I worked in the public sector briefly and they have very specific requirements IME so if you don't tick their boxes you won't make it past sift and get to interview. In the private sector, where most of my experience has been, the main thing we / I look for is great attitude. Someone who says yes, I can do that and I'm willing to try xyz. Almost everything else can be taught. Also good examples of past successes and good cheer, someone I want to work with. I read somewhere that all interview questions are really one of 3 questions: 1. Can you do the job (have you got the right skills)? 2. Do you want to do the job (have you got the motivation and attitude? and 3. Do we like you (do you seem nice, will we get along)?

Would you be more willing to take on an individual without an accreditation but more experience versus one with limited experience but an accreditation?

A: I'd always take someone with the experience over accreditation, 100%. I rarely care about project management or other qualifications but I might well be biased since I don't have them!

Which sector are you in and would you recommend it?

A: I've worked in banking, telecoms, retail, entertainment, the public sector, property and <checks CV> distribution. I much, much prefer the private sector. The public sector is a kinder environment in some ways but it takes a lot longer to make anything happen and it can be frustrating, with tricky politics. To be honest, what I'd recommend is to find the nicest people / boss / company to work for. Because what really matters in everyday work is how good and decent your line manager is and how they support you and how they make you feel, day to day.

Yes, it's more marginally more interesting talking about shipping iphones than shipping bricks but it's all "shipping" really. Look for a company with good perks too. For me, I've always cared about annual leave so the company paying £10k less but with 35 days leave was always more attractive to me than anything, even the £10k. You may care about maternity policies or something else, research the company and your boss before you decide where to work.

Come and update us and tag me if you get a new role, good luck! 🙂

I did PRINCE2 and that was in the private sector. You can do an intensive week long course with the exam at the end.

prince 2 is used in some public sector and IT companies. Fairly useful for those areas. It is a project by route - shove in one end and come out the other, although I believe they’ve added in more agile stuff since I got mine 15 years ago.

PMI certs are used more widely in private industry- because it’s global. I got quals in that later CAPM . I worked in pharma so prince 2 not widely used, but I got it in a hurry as back up plan when I was made redundant. PMI is also used mostly for supply chain projects in most industries.

not sure about service industry or construction

the reason prince 2 is popular is you can get the complete practioner in 1 week course. It’s a hard week but gets you at least a recognised qualification very quickly without having too much project management experience. So it’s good to get just to gain entry into the profession even if they use APM/PMI as it shows you get basic principles even if terms are different. It also shows employers that you’ve committed time/ money to persue your career. Once in a role and gaining experience you can get them ( hopefully to pay for) a full APM or whatever their method is.

Someone mentioned Lean (and six sigma) not project management in itself. But L6S “ toolbox” is very helpful as project manager. I used both skills for pretty much everything. If you can also gain some experience of this and gain a green belt, or even become a black belt, you’d pretty much walk into jobs. Hence why most project management institutes are now combining L6S stuff into their advanced qualifications.

Retired now. Thank goodness. But despaired the lack of project management skills of my builder - 11 week job turned into 6 months and it was chaos 😱🤦‍♀️

@Blenheimprincess thank you! I am planning to spend time over Christmas really polishing up my CV and I do have experience in a lot of the areas that PMs have mentioned in this thread, such as change management, systems improvement etc. so I will accentuate these in my applications. I have worked in large organisations such as the NHS and in Higher Education so I do have quite a bit of experience so will think about my transferable skills.

@Newlifestartingatlast it's so interesting that you mention the lack of PM skills of your builder-because I say the same about my current manager! No time management skills, no people skills, no PM skills-it's really quite scary!

@FartOutLoudDay this is my worry and it's something I've seen first hand. A colleague with very little experience being promoted on the basis that they have PRINCE2 over colleagues with years of experience but who don't have a formal qualification.

In my experience, no-one cares about the qualification. What they care about is your experience and you being able to demonstrate that you're a strong PM (or if you're junior, that you demonstrate potential).

I'm a Programme Manager in Financial Services and a former UK Head of Delivery at a big name global consultancy. I've been managing projects, and project/programme managers for over 20 years. I've recruited PMs for 10+ years and none of my employers even asked about PM qualifications. It's just a box ticked (a box we're not really interested in). I've met plenty of (and fired quite a few) PMs who have the qualifications but lack the ability to manage their way out of a paper bag. What we care about is your experience, your ability, your drive, your stakeholder management etc. We expect you to have a solid understanding of applying different methodologies and their pitfalls but your performance and your experience is a million times more important than a project management qualification.

To evidence this, I managed a multi-year programme with a yearly IT budget of $80 million delivering into 40+ countries. If the programme had failed, it would have been global headline news and one or more members of the Global Board risked a jail sentence. I don't have a project management qualification. No-one even asked if I had, let alone cared that I didn't.

Haven't read through all the thread but my DH is a director and hires PM. He is in software and said whilst qualifications are good he mainly looks at experience when going through CVs. In fact, before he got to his level, he didn't have any qualifications and moved from NHS to current company and tripled his salary before climbing the ladder!!