Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Sick leave in public sector, how easy is it to dismiss?

15 replies

Tomazina · 16/12/2022 10:53

Hello,

I've name changed for this as don't want to be too outing.

Have been off work for 5 months due to anxiety and depression. I have a further fit note covering me until end of January but am worried my manager / HR will move to Stage 2 sickness procedure with the aim of dismissal. I'm not sure if I will feel well enough to return by then.

Can anyone please share their experiences of sickness process / dismissal in public sector? According to colleague there's a misconception about how 'safe / protected' one should feel just because we work for a local authority. Sick pay is quite generous, 6month full pay, 6 months half pay. Thank you.

OP posts:
Scottishflower65 · 16/12/2022 11:02

What does your work sickness procedure say in relation to long term sickness? In my experience, it does take more than one long term sickness period, fairly close together, to trigger the formal procedure.

AlexandraJJ · 16/12/2022 11:07

How long have you been employed there?

Tomazina · 16/12/2022 11:21

@Scottishflower65 I'm waiting for my manager to send me the sickness procedure policy so I can read through it.

@AlexandraJJ I've worked there for 12 years. I spoke with my union rep and he more or less said just because I have a valid sick note doesn't mean I can't be dismissed. So stressful.

OP posts:
carefulcalculator · 16/12/2022 11:29

You can be dismissed, your work will have to follow procedure. You need to understand the procedure. I am surprised you can't access policies from your work website?

Was it a work issue or a non-work issue that caused the anxiety and depression? Or was there no identified trigger, just a change? If it was a work problem that contributed, then they need to take steps to stop it recurring.

Sorry you are feeling unwell Flowers

page1of4 · 16/12/2022 11:39

They're going to have to develop a support plan and help you follow it, including reasonable adjustments, flexible working, phased return etc, and as pp said, addressing any work related contributing factors through risk assessments etc. see it more as a process to help you back to work than a ploy to get you out. If I were your manager that's how I'd be thinking. I work in nhs.

AnneLovesGilbert · 16/12/2022 11:40

Are occupational health supporting your?

Quveas · 16/12/2022 12:00

I can't recall the case law right now - sorry I don't have time to look it up, and you probably don't need it anyway as public sector HR is well aware of it! - but it is very, very unlikely that they will move to dismiss before your full sick pay entitlement runs out. There was a case several years ago where an employer dismissed on ill-health grounds before contractual sick pay ran out, and the employer lost because it was deemed that they had subverted their terms of employment unfairly - effectively, if you offer a term you must adhere to delivering that term.

What is very possible - and many public sector employers are doing this - is a two pronged approach:

Worst case scenario, they will start sickness absence processes (often at the six months mark) so that they can complete all the processes and "care elements" before you recah the 12 months. They may then either serve notice sometime in the half pay period (depending on how long your notice is, so effcetively saying "come back before your half pay runs out or you will have no job when it does") or wait until your sick pay runs out and serve you notice then.

Best case scenario is that they will start the above processes but wait until you run out of sick pay - but that is getting increasingly less common in my experience. My employer has just advised managers that we need to be shifting people off long term sickness "one way or the other".

Much as I hate this, I can get the point. With the best will in the world, and being entirely sympathetic to people who are off sick long term, we have no cover for them and are issuing potential redundancy notices to people who are in work.

It's difficult without knowing a bit more about the circumstances, but the end of January is several weeks away, and if you can't be sure that you can return then - is the issue work related or personal? And what do you think needs to happen to be able to go back to work? Because there are many options to support people that may be available, but, with respect, sitting at home worrying about when they will dismiss you is a self-fulfilling prophecy - you will make your anxiety and depression worse, won't be able to go back and will be dismissed. The employer has a responsibility to look at how they can assist you to return to work. But it isn't all on them - you need to look at what you can do, and what you might need, to be able to go back.

The longer you sit at home stressing about this, the more likely that you'll never feel able to go back. And that doesn't just affect this role - it is about, if you lose your job, how you then get back into employment and what a lengthy period of sickness does to your employment record.

There are things that people could advise you about - but not based on so little information.

Tomazina · 18/12/2022 00:27

@carefulcalculator- my anxiety and depression isn't caused by work as such but my manager has certainly contributed to it through toxic work environment. My laptop is in the office so I can't access the full sickness procedure policy. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I suspect my manager isn't overly keen on sending it over as he doesn't want me to be fully aware of rights etc as per policy.

@page1of4 - I wish you were my manager, your team must be really lucky to . Instead of support, one of the 1st suggestions my manager made (at stage 1 meeting) was that I should seek a less stressful job!

@AnneLovesGilbert Yes, they are involved. Last report said I was not well enough to return and they could not give a date for return as such.

@Quveas I completely agree with your advice about not stressing but I honestly don't know how to. In my head I'm thinking I will be dismissed even though I know deep down there are procedures that have to be followed before this last resort.

OP posts:
Nat6999 · 18/12/2022 02:22

I was Civil Service & it took me being off sick 18 months for them to dismiss me.

Gingernaut · 18/12/2022 02:37

They can go through a capability procedure, which could end up with you being returned to work either part-time or phased, re-deployed or, if no other position is available or suitable, dismissed on the grounds of ill health.

Quveas · 18/12/2022 07:31

Nat6999 · 18/12/2022 02:22

I was Civil Service & it took me being off sick 18 months for them to dismiss me.

That may or may not still be the case in the Civil Service, but few parts of the public sector can afford to wait that long now. The last decade was bad enough, but this year there is an even harsher reality - there is no money to pay to maintain workers past the sick leave period (which to be fair is generous). Hence why we are being told to get people off sick leave one way or another. It would the dangerous to assume there is leeway.

Nat6999 · 18/12/2022 20:39

I had exhausted my sick pay entitlement after just over 9 months because I had several periods of sick leave in the previous 2 years. I could have gone back to work if I wanted but had made my mind up that I was finishing, I got a years salary when they finished me.

Nat6999 · 18/12/2022 20:42

I'm surprised the unions are standing for the way the Civil Service are trying to get rid of staff on sick leave.

cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 20:47

By it what are employees supposed to do? A whole team can be off sick now . If you can't work there look for another role but don't expect the public to keep funding you

Supersimkin2 · 18/12/2022 21:04

In general terms, the party’s over. No one else gets the public sector mega payouts and the unions know they can’t make a stand cos there are no comparators.

Sick leave is famously much higher in public jobs than in any other UK sector, including tough, successful, world-leading British industries like fintech, medical research and media.

Say what you like, none of our councils or the NHS are exactly world-leading.

For the individual, sick leave is a superb deal, but don’t expect it to last you a lifetime.

They can and will get rid - can you show willing to work a day a week or whatever they offer you in staged return?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page