Phoning in sick after being refused time off

[Isthatmcormac]

Scenario: Small team. Limited availability for annual leave. All shifts in the weekly schedule need filled so when someone is off on AL, others pick up extra shifts to cover the one that’s off. If they can’t/don’t want to cover then staff are drafted in from another location to cover.
C came to me and asked for AL on dates X & Y (10 days before the date) as they wanted to go away on a Christmas trip. I explained that it wasn’t possible due to A&B being on AL, and in fact, C had opted in to cover Bs usual shift.
C kicked up a bit of a fuss because they didn’t want to miss the Christmas trip and it was for those specific dates.
C phones in sick for the dates that AL was denied. Obviously can’t prove that they weren’t sick but it’s very conveniently timed.

Is there anything that can be done about this? Or is this just one of the joys of the workplace?

tbh it's cold season and it could very well be that the colleague is genuinely sick.

Tricky unless you have solid proof that they were indeed having a jolly.

But as a manager you can pull them aside & have a back to work and mention the coincidence - off the record if its a first offence.

This happened to me once, genuinely sick and quite glad I hadn’t paid out for a holiday as it would’ve been miserable.

Unless some proof happens to turn up that they were away, there isn’t much you can do.

Someone from another team did this. Someone posted on their Facebook telling them to have the good flight. So all the other people at work saw it and made screen shots and sent to their director. It was the last thing in a long line of problems. It was early in 2020, so by the time he came back we had gone to wfh so I am not sure what happened. But he didn’t ever log back on.

What Yivamoon said. All you can do is put them in a position where they have to lie to your face iyswim. People are so uncomfortable with it, it's a bit of a punishment in itself.

Secondly you are establishing that any pattern will be noticed, and lastly that you are not a pushover. All important things.

Definitely call them on it.

The brass neck of C. I could never request leave then just take sick because I didn't get it.

Nothing you can do, you can’t prove they’re not sick.

Can you get on their SM and see if there’s any evidence that they did go ?

i think you need to accept it at face value
they are sick they have said
dont go searching their sm - what would be the process after that
just accept that people get sick

We had this at work.

Unfortunately the member of staff was then tagged on Instagram at the event they wanted time off for. Their excuse was that they felt better by that point. They handed in their notice the next week

Thanks all 👍🏻 definitely not about to go searching SM. There’s nothing I could do with the information so would just annoy me more than anything. Of course, they could genuinely have been sick. It’s absolutely possible given the time of year and the amount of bugs doing the rounds - it’s just very conveniently timed. The AL was only requested a week before the dates too.

History of various absences/lateness - although always JUST on the “ok” side of things rather than enough for any kind of action. Have had words over AL before due to them always trying to book it at short notice then me getting attitude when there’s no availability due to others having booked in advance. Of course, they’re perfectly entitled to request it for whenever they want/need - I just can’t do anything if it’s already fully booked. Everyone is given access to AL booking at the same time and it’s done of a first come, first served basis.

Also requested Boxing Day off at the same time as the other AL and this also had to be denied so we’ll see if that shift is worked or if they call in sick again.

sounds like you have grounds to talk to them.

look up bradford scale. you don't need to implement it fully (ime it's cruel) but parts of the process might be useful for you going forward with a 'difficult' person.

Do you have enough staff to provide sufficient cover? Can staff usually get the time off that they require?

you will just have to assume that she is telling the truth. Unless she hits any sickness triggers there isn’t much you can do. Does your place have a proper sickness policy - you can’t just use another one like the Bradford factor because you feel like it.

@greenacrylicpaint thanks.

@IneedanewTV Yes, there is definitely enough staff to provide sufficient cover. I’ve only been with the company 4.5 years but haven’t had any issues with people not getting time off that they require etc. Everyone is well aware of the AL limits and policies etc and work really well with it. There are proper sickness policies in place but the staff members is JUST sticking to the right side of that. The rest of the team works incredibly well together so this is unfortunately causing some tension.

This is me.

I requested the last two days of this week as annual leave (I’m going through a rough time and needed a few days to get my head together).

Manager never got back to me so a GP signed me off.

Sometimes you just need a break.

She obviously wasnt sick.

Just check her social media. If it is public and she has posted anything then you're not doing anything wrong by looking.

What is the sick pay like? Was she paid for those days?

If it is creating tension in the team then it really is time to act. If you can get any proof that she went on that trip, then it is time for a warning.

Not based in the UK but another European country. The way it works here (there've actually been court cases around this) is that in circumstances like this employers have the right to ask for a doctor's note from day one. No idea of the British rules but might be something worth checking into.

I’d have a quiet word with them before Boxing Day. This might minimise the chance of their calling in sick on that day.

But if all this is the latest in a line of poor behaviour, seek advice from HR about a more formal process. You don’t want the decent team members to be frustrated by what they could regard as management inaction, because they might become intransigent about offering cover or they might resign.

FWIW I don’t think that first come first served is the best way of sorting out festive leave. Not everyone makes plans in the summer. At my workplace, staff put their requests for Dec and early January on a different spreadsheet and it’s all worked out in a fair way by a manager in early Nov. Not everyone is happy with the outcomes but we all find it fair and even-handed. Just a thought.

This time of year with all the illness around you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't agree you should be pulling them up on the coincidence - if this was posted the other way round, somebody had been ill and their manager was implying they hadn't been - the same people on this thread would be telling them to report it to HR!

HR Director here.

Of course you don’t have to ignore this. (Being a manager means managing.)

A return to work conversation to let them know, gently but firmly, that the coincidence has been noted, the impact of their absence and laying it on thick about whatever well-being resources your company has should make them think twice in future if they were taking the piss.

if they do the same on Boxing Day that’s a pattern and should be picked up as part of informal/formal sickness management procedures.

It's causing tension because you are refusing to do anything about it. It's up to you to manage this employee and you are not doing so. You need to stop letting this employee get away with so much, a cheeky fucker team mate plus a weak ineffective manager is bound to cause issues.

I had to go off sick when denied leave. It was actually probably my fault for putting in for odd leave days to try to cope with the illness I had at the time, as I didn't want to trigger.

At this point, just make a note of it and save it in a private folder with their initials, so you have a record.

Do the same with all of their performance/ attendance related issues over the next 6 months so that you are building up a record.

If a pattern starts to emerge, then you can address it. But as a one off, don't pull them up right now.

@user1471457751 Thanks for that 👍🏻 I’m actually the assistant manager, not the manager. The leave was requested through myself as the manager was on annual leave at the time.