Can my flexible working request be refused if health and safety comes into question?

[2Ees]

Apologies for the lengthy post.
I've made a request at work to reduce my hours due to stress/anxiety and also safety concerns. I have a 90minute - 2 hour commute to work to do a 12 hour shift and the times I finish (early hours of the morning) mean public transport is not available so my only option is to drive. On a few occasions I have fallen asleep at traffic lights so have been worried about this happening again and obviously it being a danger to myself or others on the road.
I stated this concern in my request as a reason for the change as well as the effect the job is having on my mental health. But was told the reason for rejecting was because the company is losing too many staff in the out of hours period.
My request was to work over the weekends Friday Saturday and Sunday ranging between 1pm -9pm and 3 days during the week 1pm-9pm. Instead of 3days 1200-0000 and 1900-0700 3days. I'm waiting to see if my 2nd request gets approved but fear it will be the same response as they want staff in the building overnight.
I also have 2 young daughters who I need to be home for in the mornings to get ready for school.
I'm struggling what to do as my next steps as if I can't reduce my hours to something safe I can't continue to work there.

Am I being unreasonable in my request?
Is this something I should raise with HR?

Your commute is very long, can you move closer or change jobs?

Does anyone else work those shifts?
If you change to fewer hours and more days what is the effect on the work? Ie if you are a carer, then the hours around will need more consideration

Depends what your job is. There was a case where rail workers (well, contractors IIRC) were doing 12 hour shifts after a long drive. Now, their maximum day is not to exceed 14 hours, so a max of one hour travel each way when working 12 hours.

I believe that was specific to that industry though and those were workers that were sent to sites, regardless of where they lived/travelled from. Presumably, you knew the length of the commute when you took the job?

It seems to me you are conflating 2 things.

Stress and anxiety - if your MH constitutes a disability (and one episode probably wouldn't) then you can ask for reasonable adjustments.

A FWR can be refused based on business needs (and it sounds as though your previous one was). Taking your specific circumstances into account is not required although a good employer who wants to keep you would probably do so.

It sounds as though this job is not compatible with your life with young DC and you need to look for something else in the long-term, either way.

Being entirely honest, they can refuse if it will impact on their business needs. Sounds more like a case of you being in an unsuitable job.

would you working different shifts impact others shifts too?

Is there enough staff to cover the hours you don't want to work?

It sounds like you need to find more suitable employment to be honest.

HR is to protect the business. And if you admit to driving whilst that tired, then I wonder if they would say you aren't fit for work and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car. I am not saying that will happen, just that you ought to be careful what you say.

I don't think the length of your commute is your employer's issue.

They've explained clearly that they have a business need for staff to cover overnights. Your best bet might be to ask for reduced hours, but covering the overnight period.

Unless they are asking you to travel somewhere other than the place of work on your contract then your commute is not their concern- you chose to work their living where you do.

Yes I think that's your best bet

I'm struggling what to do as my next steps as if I can't reduce my hours to something safe I can't continue to work there. its possible if you alert them to it in a health and safety way they will stop you working there for health and safety reasons

You need to separate logistics from the demands of the job. Noone wants to work lates but they need cover and may not be able to make exceptions as it sets a precendent. Your dc and commute are a contributory factor but presumably not recent changes within their control. Are Occupational Health involved?

Where these your hours when you took the job? I don't think you have a leg to stand on tbh.

Have you moved or have work moved you recently, what's changed?

Unless they have in some way contributed to the length of your commute, for instance by moving the business location, or by removing transport which was previously provided, then unfortunately the length and nature of your commute isn't really of interest to them when it comes to deciding the reasons for a flexible working request to be approved or not.

I think they will decline the request as usually your commute is seen as a you problem not a them problem. However, how long have you worked there? If you a long term valuable employee then they may decide the benefit of keeping you out ways any other issues

Did they change the hours or did you apply to that role but now want it changed? It sounds like you don't want to do any overnight. If their business model is that everyone is on ar rota that includes overnight and one staff not doing so means having to employ someone else whilst you covering a shift that is not required, than you don't have a leg to stand on.

You're responsible for choosing to drive whilst unfit to do so.

Did you have a different commute when you took the job?

I don't know why you would want to continue to work there tbh. Even if you were given your ideal choice of hours, a job that involves a 1.5-2 hour commute doesn't sound sustainable. And if you work more days, that means even more total hours of commuting.
I'd suggest you look for another job.

So currently your shift pattern is 12 to 00 3 days a week or 19 to 7 three days a week?

You'd like to change to 8 hours 13 to 21 three days plus top up hours over fri/sat/sun within the same time frame?

That is completely different to what you are currently doing so I can see why they would say no tbh. Would changing our hour completely change the whole rota? or are there people are multiple different set hours. I think you are ging to have to ask what would be acceptable. Maybe reducing your shift from the top, ie 14 to 00 and 21 to 7, that way you are still covering the night hours.

But to answer your question, no they do not have to change your hours because you are too tired to drive home.

Have you always had the same commute? How long have you worked there and what kind of job is it?

Your employer can refuse the request based on business need. If your proposed hours cause a problem (eg they need people there for the hours you currently do then shorter hours aren't an option because there wouldn't be enough staff or they'd need more people) they can refuse.

From the little you shared in the OP looking for another job closer to home with hours that fit your life better is the way to go.

This isn't the job for you - it's too much of a commute and doesn't fit in with your childcare arrangements. Your employer has already made it clear what they need and your issues with living too far away and childcare are for you to sort out. I cant imagine how far away you live from work if it takes you 2 hours to get home in the middle of the night?

Your commute is up to you.

it’s nothing to do with your work.

This.

A FWR is for you to demonstrate how a change in working pattern won't negatively affect their business. They can reject it. Doesn't soubd like you gave any reasons about their business, it was all about you