Advertising my role at a higher band?

[PetShopGirl]

A hypothetical question currently, but am interested to know what the position would be if it were to actually happen.

I'm leaving my NHS role in the next few weeks for a sideways move to another NHS organisation. This is driven in large part by the lack of progression opportunity at my current trust. I work in a fairly specialised (non-clinical) team and I am a band 7 whilst my manager is band 9 - with no role in between.

They are interviewing for my replacement this week but are now down to just one candidate, with the others having withdrawn. I suspect they may struggle to get an offer over the line even if the candidate is good, as my role is quite 'big' for the banding. My boss has acknowledged for a while that I'm working at an 8a/8b level but there's 'no money' to do anything about that. And obviously no real imperative whilst I'm sitting there doing the job...

So my question is, if they don't appoint this week and then re-advertise the role at eg a band 8a, is there anything I can do about that? Would I have any sort of claim given I've been doing the role in its current expanded form for the past 18 months?

Thanks for reading and any advice gratefully received!

The answer is no. You were paid the agreed amount for the job that you did. Unless it was actually re-evaluated with you still in post, what hypothetical grade it might otherwise have been is irrelevant.

Pretty sure they would have to make a case under agenda for change that they have a role which requires band 8 and somehow distinguish a difference between your role and the new one.

My role was expanded considerably but the JD that I was appointed on the basis of was never actually changed. If they then advertised my role with an amended/accurate JD (at 8a), would that make a difference?

Don't want to say too much, but due to the nature of my role they could fairly easily push through a rebanding if that's what was decided would help them recruit.

FWIW should also add that my role in its non-expanded version actually benchmarks as at least an 8a at equivalent size trusts. (That's according to the results of an exercise undertaken by someone at another trust who has no skin in my game!)

No it wouldn't. If you wanted to make an issue of this then the time to do it was whilst in post. You either say you won't take on additional responsibilities without the pay reevaluation, or you say you will only take them on if they put it in for re-evaluation. You told you manager that you were working "above your band" and you accepted the explanation. That means you accepted the situation. The role, once you leave, isn't your role. They can do what they want and pay whatever they decide (within the evaluation system). The time to complain was when you were in post, not having left it. In law you were paid the amount they agreed to pay you and that is all you were ever entitled to.

The lesson here is that you either don't accept working above your grade; or you complain and immediately insist upon re-evaluation; or you suck it up for the experience. You can't remake history though.

You either say you won't take on additional responsibilities without the pay reevaluation, or you say you will only take them on if they put it in for re-evaluation.

@Quveas I mean, the NHS would collapse pretty quickly if everyone did this, but I take your point.

Would it make any difference if they advertised at a higher band while I'm still in post? (I'm assuming the answer is still no!).

You assume correctly - the answer is always no.

But I agree - I'm not NHS, and whilst I am not badly paid, the same would apply to pretty much the whole public sector. I am certainly not paid what I would be in the private sector, or for the level of responsibility I have. But that's the choice I made because i wanted my skills to benefit wider society and not profit. I know it's annoying. But it really is that simple - you either deal with it at the time or accept that is what it is.

You want to claim money for the last 18 months if they Reband the role? Surely you don’t think this is a thing?

Well not necessarily - that's why I was asking. But why not if I've been doing the exact same job that they now say is valued at x amount? If my role were rebanded while still in post due to the additional responsibilities, the uplift would be backdated to the point I started these.

But like I said, it's all hypothetical anyway.

You have some oddly hostile tones replies op, no doubt nhs senior managers etc not fighting the corner of their colleagues. Very much an I’m alright Jack attitude.

Also, it is a thing, it’s bordering on constructive dismissal when you’re working above your banding and it’s not acknowledged but rebranded when you leave. If you’re in the union op give them a ring about it.

*rebanded

Yeah come on we all know how that works.

I was bullied out of my role when I asked for a job evaluation. It’s not as black and white as you state.

if they advertise the job at the re banded level, could you apply for it? would you stay in post for more money?

I don’t know about in the NHS or public sector more generally, but in my corner of the private world, this would definitely not be a thing. In fact, it’s the opposite of a thing - it’s basically expected.

Out of interest what’s the difference in the two JDs? It is unfortunate that it took you to find another role before the job was re evaluated, I am presuming that things have been added to it. JDs are or should be consistency checked to ensure they are banded correctly however on saying that if you want a role to come out at a particular band it isn’t different to put the right wordage in to ensure it does. You don’t have any recourse here unless your manager agrees and asks that you be compensated accordingly. Better to leave on good terms I think and use the experience gained for the next role

Sorry typo. It isn’t difficult to put the right words in the increase the banding

They removed the pay band 1 from my trust (not sure if it was the entire nhs that did this) they put them all to band 2 and nobody got any back pay. Maybe it's not relevant at all but changing a jobs banding in that scenario didn't make them pay anyone extra.

Thank you @Thatwasdeadtightoncheryl - you get where I'm coming from on this.

Interesting question, and I had thought about this. I'm pretty sure the answer is no as I've made the decision to move on and will aim to progress from my next role (which is quite a different sort of role). I would still want to try and be properly recognised for the work I've done though, if they concluded that it was higher value to them than they've been getting away with paying me.

I did not suggest it was easy. Nor, as someone else suggested, was I hostile. I explained the facts. Facts are facts. They are neutral. I'm sorry if asking for a reevaluation in your specific case ended badly. But that wouldn't happen every time. Or even most times. And it doesn't change the facts.

Sorry but it isn't bordering on any kind of dismissal. It's naive to think that there's a worth to a job that is intrinsic. The OP had the chance to follow procedures. They could have insisted on asking for a reevaluation. They didn't have to accept what the manager told them. They chose to accept the explanation, for whatever reason. There are no grounds whatsoever for constructive dismissal, especially since the first test of it is "did the person follow and exhaust internal procedures?"

@PetShopGirl this is a difficult one.
If a job is re-evaluated and comes out at a higher grade an employer can choose to advertise it at the higher grade, and require the job holder to apply for the role with no guarantee they will get it. Essentially this is what may happen if they can’t fill your role at its current grade. As you are leaving you wouldn’t be entitled to back pay but could apply for the role.

You have previously asked for the role to be re-evaluated but this didn’t happen because you accepted your managers explanation there was no money. Sadly this is what a lot of people do as they don’t want to rock the boat. What you needed to do was formally request a re-evaluation, then if it came out at a higher grade apply if they advertising the role.

If they do advertise it at a higher grade you may still be able to lodge an equal pay claim. Organisations, like NHS, use job evaluation schemes to identify roles of equal weight/value www.nhsemployers.org/articles/job-evaluation-scheme. They do this to help reduce or remove the chance of equal pay claims. If the person who gets your role at the higher grade is the opposite sex to you you may have grounds. Equally if you know another Band 8a/8b of the opposite sex, even if their role is completely different, you maybe able to use them as a comparator. The best people to advise you are your TU.

The key thing you need is an accurate job description for your current role, ideally with a date from which you held this role.

Realistically, it’s tough but you are leaving and they may find ways to say the job being advertised has x which you didn’t do and that is why it’s a 8a/8b. The decision you have to make is are you prepared for the stress, paperwork etc. of raising an equal pay grievance whilst learning a new role. It may be easier to apply for promotion.

Thank you @Princessglittery what you say makes a lot of sense.

In relation to the point about re-evaluation, as another poster said, this is definitely not black and white. I know too much about how these work in the real world to believe that there would have been any outcome that actually reflected the reality if it didn't work for my boss's budget at the time. If my boss can't recruit to my role it will quite quickly cause issues for people with the most influence and it's therefore very likely to be a case of 'here's some more money, make it so'. As I said previously, and without wanting to give too much away, in the area I work in things like this can basically be pushed through or blocked on the nod, regardless of whatever the formal process is.

However, I definitely wouldn't want to get into any sort of long and stressful legal process. I'm leaving on very good terms otherwise, which I wouldn't particularly be looking to sour (I'd be keen to return to the organisation one day, into a different sort of role). I think I was really wondering if there might be any 'automatic' right to some form of redress if they did this - ie that they would be pricing that in to their consideration from the get-go. But I see now that this is definitely not the case!

I will leave it and focus on moving onwards and upwards from my next role, which I'm genuinely excited about and is much better suited to me in many ways.