Furious about colleague's salary

[fightfirewithfiree]

I am this person's line manager and I just found out she earns more than me.

She does not have any special/ technical skills that I don't - her job role is what I used to do for 4 years before being promoted to management - and she's not even that good at it if I'm honest.

She has been in the organisation a year less than me.

I have been her manager for a year now. My boss is very hush-hush about salaries but I found out inadvertently her salary is £1000 per year more than mine (an administrator/ finance person showed me something she didn't realise I wasn't supposed to see).

I actually think it's ridiculous anyway that I'm her line manager and am not supposed to know her salary. Feel like leaving the organisation, feeling very devalued.

It's a really unpleasant thing to have to raise with my manager, I hate talking about money but if I'm managing someone surely I should earn more than them, I have far more resposibility for all kinds of things.

WWYD?

Totally agree @Covetthee being called childish because you have a normal emotional reaction to not being valued is crazy!

Sounds like the OP has more of a dilemma about the person who showed her the information to begin with and that says a lot about her.

I can assure you this happens a lot and that you are angry at the wrong person . She is doing her job and probably has better salary negotiation skills than you . You should just request an increase in your wages .
I gave someone in my team that does exactly the same job as everyone else a 20% increase in wages . She was there for our team when I got seriously ill and needed to go on maternity leave sooner than expected , she was extremely reliable during covid and she actually came out of maternity leave sooner to help us so she 100% deserves it . She is not the fastest or even brightest member in our team but she is reliable , eager to learn and loyal .

incredibly strange practice that you're not allowed to know your direct report's salaries - how are you supposed to manage conversations on pay reviews etc without knowing where they sit in their bandings for their grades?

big red flag for the organisation in general

I always recommend www.askamanager.com for good scripts to use when negotiating salary, I've seen this situation come up a few times on there.

I had someone moved from elsewhere in the dept to reporting to me (& I was a grade higher), then discovered they were paid more than me.

I raised with my line mgr who said they were overpaid due to previously working in a dept which is typically higher paid. I then raised with HR and asked for details of the wider team's pay and bonuses. They said they would look into it. They never provided the info I requested but I got a £15k pay rise.

The big difference is I had access to the pay info for my team. Perhaps you could ask HR for info?

also, to everyone saying this is ok and not seeing a problem / putting OP at fault?

Are you all for REAL?

No DR should be paid more than their line manager - at all. I would be pissed OFF in OPs shoes and issuing an ultimatum to the company in question along the lines of pay me what I'm worth or I'm walking immediately.

OP - a PP does raise a valid point around what you're doing re: her "not being good at her job" - are you managing this through the correct procedure? Feeding this back to her? Pulling together development plans?

Or are you keeping this to yourself and allowing the girl to carry on thinking she's doing a good job only to find out thats not the case when discusssing things like salary? If so - poor form.

If you are her line manager, then i would totally expect that you have access to all your team's salary. I would also be pissed if someone who reported into me earned more than me regardless of the amount. You are managing a team and therefore shouldering that extra responsibility. With regards to your salary, i would defo arrange a meeting with your manager to negotiate a salary. I wouldn't mention the collogue. I would focus on you, your responsibilities, what you have achieved. I would also do research and benchmark what you should be on in your area of expertise. I would also be preparing to find a new job quietly though.
With regards to your team member who you say is crap at her job, i would be taking responsibility to address this also as her manager. Put a plan in place to improve her issues. Be careful though if you say your manager is her friend as you need to play it right. I had a boss who was best friends with a collogue and it was a nightmare, she got preference of hols - like three weeks in row off and i wouldn't be let have two days etc . Complete favourism but nothing was done about it

You need to push for a raise. No it's not fair but it sounds like she negotiated that salary. You need to argue for a higher salary too.

The best way to get a higher salary is to move. To be honest it doesn’t sound like you respect either your manager or your direct report so it might be for the best anyway.

She's not more skilled than me, she doesn't even have a degree and I do.

For this YABVU. Having a degree doesn't in any way equate with being good at your job (bar jobs and professions that actually require specific knowledge) or earning more than a school-leaver. There's no correlation and I don't know why people think it does.

YANBU that (1) you don't know your direct reports' salaries (2) you earn less than a direct report. This doesn't sound like much of a hierarchy, or a ladder - it's sounds like a manager higher up than you doing a shit job of managing their team.

DH and I both work for the same employer. I am in management (having been a practitioner) he is still a senior prac. For example's sake he is halfway up band 4 I am at the top of band five, he earns more/the same as me a lot of months because he can claim for overtime unsocial hours etc whereas I can't. It's just expected as part of the role for me.
I agree with others leave her pay out if it and renegotiate your own

For this YABVU. Having a degree doesn't in any way equate with being good at your job (bar jobs and professions that actually require specific knowledge) or earning more than a school-leaver. There's no correlation and I don't know why people think it does.

why do people bother with degrees then? Sounds like bitterness and delusion to me...

You sound like an absolute nightmare. You’re acting like it’s a personal insult she’s asked for more money when really it’s just a sensible thing to do. I hope you don’t take your rage out on this poor girl.

Do you actually understand what is happening?

Some of these replies are so unnecessarily sh*tty. Women really are each others worst enemies.

OP doesn't sound bitter or angry towards the one earning more than her, as many of you have insinuated, she is simply having feelings of frustration towards her manager, which whether you agree or not personally, would be a fair initial reaction to this situation for many people. Nor does she sound childish or like a bad manager as some have stated. I'd hazard a guess that if OP were male this entire thread would have gone in a complete different direction.

OP, do you have regular pay reviews/appraisals? Could the other staff member have recently had a review where she requested a pay rise? And if so, when is your next one due? I would focus on that for now. Bide your time and see how things go at your next opportunity to discuss your own personal salary and in the meantime do some research on salaries that other companies are offering for your role and level of experience within your industry. If after your next review, you still don't feel valued in your role, start looking elsewhere.

Uhmmm no. Just no.

Keeping salaries confidential is a shady practice that only advantages the company and helps them lowball their employees.

We need to have more data breaches like this.

Some of these replies are so unnecessarily sh*tty. Women really are each others worst enemies

I wouldn't assume that all replies are from women. Loads of men post on Mumsnet.

What a twatty thing to say. Do you feel better being gratuitously mean to a fellow woman?

And if the OP WAS an effective and professional 'manager' she would be on more money in the first place.

And this little gem shows you are very disconected from the realities of the corporate world @PurpleButterflyWings

This, this, this. I've long believed that in the vast majority of cases the only ones to benefit from a policy of keeping salaries confidential is the company. How does it benefit an individual not to know what anyone else in the company earns? I've always been quite happy for fellow members of staff to know a ballpark figure of what I earn and if they think they are out of line with that, they can then take it up with management.

Also agree with @RandomMusings7 that having a degree is relevant – it means you have a higher academic qualification than someone who doesn't. No, it doesn't mean you are better at the specific job but if there was no correlation at all, then why would many job ads specify the level of academic qualification required?

The op needs to be a manager and go ask for a pay review. That's what that post was implying.

why do people bother with degrees then? Sounds like bitterness and delusion to me...

Ha, not bitterness and delusion at all, and a very good question. I ask myself very often why people get themselves into thousands of pounds of debt in their prime years doing degrees which don't necessarily or inevitably provide entry into a given career path....and then complain that they're on a minimum wage job that they needn't have bothered going to university for. University level education can, and often is, appalling quality and complete waste of time and money. It's a money-spinner for the university. Nothing to do with improving outcomes for under- or post-grads. If one seeks to measure success by financial outcomes (which more and more people are obliged to do these days), trades, good old fashioned 'entrepreneurialism' are for many people a better option. Truly, what does a degree in Media Studies offer a 21 year old? (just an example)

Also agree with @RandomMusings7 that having a degree is relevant – it means you have a higher academic qualification than someone who doesn't. No, it doesn't mean you are better at the specific job but if there was no correlation at all, then why would many job ads specify the level of academic qualification required?

Job ads specify them because they can. If you are offering a job that pays twenty quid an hour and you have the pick of someone with a degree and someone without, on paper you'd go for the former. However, there's absolutely nothing to say that that person will be better at the job than the latter. We're not talking about nurses or doctors or engineers or mathematicians or vets or whatever - obviously they need the extra knowledge. But, a degree in Business Studies: what is that? Someone who's started and run their own business straight out of school is going to be far far better qualified to run a business than someone who studied it in textbooks for 3 years.

Thanks to those who have given constructive advice/ empathised, and the ask a manager recommendation - very useful.

Could it have been a typo?

@fightfirewithfiree do you have an HR department at work? You could raise it with them. What is the size of the company? Are there other people doing equivalent jobs to you that you can ask about.

In my experience though, the best way to get a pay rise is to get a job offer from a competitor. You can then ask them to match. Basically if you're not happy with the situation, look for other opportunities.

Same job on this occasion, just happened that colleague was Golden person who CEO wanted to promote

@Mangolist

that is a very valid reason for this person being paid more than you!!!

In all seriousness
perhaps use the opportunity to ask for some line management training
because to need mumsnet to suggest you speak with your manager - is baffling to say the least