If you earn around £50k how many unpaid hours extra do you put it?

[SnarkyBag]

Just trying to decide what’s just part of settling into a new role and getting to grips verses what’s reasonable long term. I’m giving it til the new year to settle but right now I’m finding I’m putting at least an extra day each week to keep on top of things.

there’s definitely a learning curve so I’m seeing some of it as professional development but longer term it’s not sustainable and to be honest I’m not really a work for free kind of person (well not for £50k a year anyway!)

obviously I know some professions such as teachers will be working crazy ridiculous hours (which I think is so wrong and insane and a culture that needs to come to an end by the way) but generally speaking how much are people working for free because of unrealistic work loads?

My employer does not have 24/7 access to me. But I manage my time and workload. My seniority means that I have flex to take time out during the day because no one is breathing over me. But equally, if the stops have to be pulled for a business critical thing which is outside office hours or on leave, then the expectation is that I will take the call or review/draft a memo, within reason. I can say no but I will have to suggest an alternative or put someone else on it. It is the outcome that is important, not the hours (because crises don't respect 9-5).

It will well remunerated for my troubles, of course. I would not do it if it were not.

If the workload is too much for the team, then it is my job to advocate for more resources. That means deciding whether to pull resources internally or putting together a business case for a new hire, deciding the seniority and skill set of the person, bending the ears of decision makers (ie getting 'buy in', love must love the term), shepherding the recruitment process and training and integrating the new team member.

It's ok to not want to do overtime unless you were paid - if you had highly sought-after skills, we'd arrange some other kind of pay structure for you - we'd consider paying you for hours worked and no bonus. But you'd probably be paid less as a consequence because those on a bonus are taking a punt on the success of themselves and the business - their bonus isn't guaranteed - your overtime would be.
Someone who stipulated they would only work 9-5 would not get the job - it's just not the right industry for that kind of rigid work pattern - it is well-known for long hours and weekend work, although we do try to limit it, it's not always possible and everyone has to muck in, in these circumstances.
From our perspective honesty is always the best policy - being candid about what you are and are not prepared to do before you take a job, avoids upset later (apart from anything our contracts state you will do unpaid overtime).

Contracts state you have to do unpaid overtime?! Isnt there a name for that.......

It's not unusual - you get paid a salary and sometimes you are required to work outside normal contracted hours and there is no paid overtime. Our team get paid very well - even the Grads get paid well over the average wage, it's not for everyone though - there are plenty of less well-paid jobs by the hour.

How do you set the boundaries for that though? That must be very difficult to legally untangle so loose. Does that not create a division in the sexes if you've got men that are more readily available if they have less responsibility at home and thus can "work harder" and progress better? (Let's face it we are a long way off "equality" at home where there wouldn't be an issue, but even if you remove sexes with parents instead) I would find that really stressful if I felt I needed to be more present to progress. I'm paid well, you don't to accept those conditions to be paid well.

Haven’t read the thread, but I’m on base salary of £55k with bonus. (Not much bonus to be fair). Zero hours overtime. Log in at 9 and logs out at 5.30. But time is flexible so I do shift my log in and out time.

Contract says overtime might be unpaid but it’s the culture of a company whether overtime is normal.

Also £50k isn’t well paid enough for a lot of overtime surely? I’d expect those £100k roles more likely to be hard and long hours?

I'm on just short of 50k but don't work for free at all. If I work past my contracted hours I claim it as overtime.

@ReadyForPumpkins indeed, no where near enough. Im not sure how much I'd need to be remunerated to accept unpaid overpaid, six figures as you say, minimum.

I was just thinking this.

I've got several friends who work finance / trust / private equity for whom 60-70 hour weeks and always being available is the standard, but they're all on very healthy 6 figure salaries for their troubles and their lack of work/life balance.

I’m on 47k and only work my core 37.5 hours, I might answer an email out of hours, but it would be very rare. If they want more of my time then they can pay me for it.

Very little!

I will do a bit extra at busy times but on a week by week basis it is around the 37.5 hours.

Depends - if you were a fresh grad with no previous experience, you might think £50k plus 20% bonus is enough.

@Firethrice well sure context is everything, but not sure how many 21/22 year old fresh grads there are responding to this thread, most (not all) will presumably be older women further along their careers with families.

Not convinced there are many people working a 70 hour week on a frequent basis for £100k either!

I only know the London City market. Someone working 70 hour weeks for 100K would be relatively junior to mid level in the legal profession or the banking or private equity world which QueSyrahSyrah mentions. These people will be fairly young in their late twenties and early thirties. If they do those hours, they are looking for a bonus or promotion/salary increase which could double that amount in a couple of years. If they survive and make the big promotion after that, the sky's the limit. There is no overtime in these jobs. In fact, you would probably laughed out of the room to suggest it.

That is why people do it. These are the jobs that someone who works on their grades and who tries to get into Oxbridge and other prestigious brand name universities and jumps hoops in the competitive graduate recruitment market is aiming for. It sounds exhausting but there are driven people like this.

50K is not a big amount in comparison and yes, people who work get 50K in the City may very well get overtime. If you are happy with 50K, it is do-able to do 9-5 in a law firm (where I work) in certain roles, not the ones I mentioned, because those tend to be client facing (and bring in the money for the firm) but with less control over your time. It is the nature of the beast.

It’s worth putting this into context though - the vast vast majority of people are not earning anything approaching £100k. A quick google shows that the top ten percent of workers in the UK earn an average of £62,583 a year. So the % earning £100k plus is definitely less than 5% of all workers.

So some posters above who try and give the impression that £100k is a norm and/or a reasonable amount to aim for are really not representative. And yes I know it does vary a lot by industry, location, bonuses etc, but still. The overall situation is one where the vast majority of people in the UK earn a hell of a lot less than £100k. And decisions in overtime will be made in that context.

Of course it creates a disparity between the sexes. Men's ability to spend more time at work because they dont have to do school pickups, take time off to look after sick children etc. is one of the reasons behind the gender pay gap.

Lots of contracts have clauses about having to working additional duties/hrs as required by the business. And then separately they have a policy of not paying overtime. It's pretty common in my experience, even in the public sector.

That is why it is so important that men be encouraged and allowed to share maternity/paternity leave and take parental leave and share in all the childcare duties.

Childcare / school run type duties eventually peter off when the children are older. It is not forever. I found myself being able to go ft and gearing up in the workplace again after my dcs were in secondary school. Lots of women find their second wind later.

Now with WFH being more common in certain roles, there is less demarcation between work and home life (bad) but more flexibility during the day to do drop offs/pick ups (good) and make up the time later, without the commute taking up a big chunk of the day. 9-5 is slowly becoming less of the norm.

I have never signed a contract which did not state I may be required to put in extra hours if the business requires.

All contracts for more junior staff say the same, whether or not it is enforced. Staff can of course refuse to work outside office hours, but there is usually a good reason (like childcare) because pure refusal would look like slow quitting.

Staying late every now and again to push a project or piece of work through is fine. It's when it's a regular thing and it's expected that it becomes a problem.

The people who want to leave at 5pm because they need to or actually want to have a work life balance get penalised for it promotion-wise? We haven't come very far, have we? So many people and, more often than not, women will be in this boat. It's almost as bad as my parents' generation where it was very difficult for women to find decent well paid work because of the simple fact that they they had children. Very few actually earn enough to employ an army of paid help.

Your work have ‘bought’ 37.5 hours a week of your time, don’t give any away for free.

^ I like this take on it. Really don't understand why people can't just do their hours then say I didn't have capacity to do X. It'll be done by Y. Why do people take the hit personally instead of pushing it back to managers and the organisation? I never do unpaid overtime. I have continued to be promoted into senior posts.