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Original poster

Negotiating flexible working hours

23 replies

CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 12:15

Is it normal for the employer to call a meeting with both bosses and HR after you request to go back for 4 days?

im panicked. I’m on maternity leave and didn’t think I’d need my union so came out to cut costs. Now I have no representation for the meeting… why so many people in one meeting?

they have to offer my old job back at least don’t they? (Full time post).

OP posts:
Cornishmumofone · 15/11/2022 12:19

You can request flexible working, but they don't have to agree to it. Most people don't want to work just one day a week, so in reality they're not going to have a full complement of staff.

Would you be open to working compressed hours?

They can offer you an alternative role (perhaps at a different pay grade), if you don't want to do your old role.

Januarcelebration · 15/11/2022 12:22

I would guess they aren’t going to give you exactly what you want. Your old role over 4 days, as an example.

But may want to discuss possible alternatives.

Original poster
CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 12:42

Oh okay… I had in mind that they might sack me! 😆

OP posts:
Neednewfloor · 15/11/2022 12:45

Try and come up with ideas how your request would benefit them rather than you.

Can your work be done in 4 days or do they need cover how would this work?

Can you be flexible to change days for certain meetings/events?

Could it be trialled for a year before you both commit?

theemmadilemma · 15/11/2022 12:54

Neednewfloor · 15/11/2022 12:45

Try and come up with ideas how your request would benefit them rather than you.

Can your work be done in 4 days or do they need cover how would this work?

Can you be flexible to change days for certain meetings/events?

Could it be trialled for a year before you both commit?

It will just be to discuss.

ALL of this too. Go in as prepared as you can for any obstacles they may try to put in the way, you need to have a plan as to how this works and benefits them as much as you.

Original poster
CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 13:02

Thank you everyone. I suffer with anxiety, have BPD and postnatal depression so this is really sending me into a meltdown.

I don’t expect them to just say ‘yes’ but the formality of it all and the amount of people in the room will just send me over the edge I think. I feel terrible not being part of a union now.

I can go back full time if necessary, but I have in mind that they will offer me a different role on reduced pay which will make me more vulnerable to redundancy (I’m currently a teacher)

OP posts:
Neednewfloor · 15/11/2022 13:09

Can you take a friend (not a union rep) but someone who can make notes /listen for you?

tattychicken · 15/11/2022 13:18

You can rejoin the union and they will represent you straight away.

Original poster
CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 13:30

@tattychicken I phoned them and they said they wouldn’t represent me for that meeting, but will once I make my return to work 😞

@Neednewfloor thats a good idea! But I don’t want my work knowing I’m out of a union as I brought a representative to a prior meeting so they might catch on if I suddenly bring a friend.

OP posts:
HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 15/11/2022 13:52

Good advice from people

Look at the 7 reasons available to them to reject your request

Consider responses for each of them

Most likely the work can't be reorganised as there won't be a member of staff with a free day
Difficulty recruiting as most people want to work more than 1 day
Not able to meet demands as the children need 5 days of education

What can you suggest as mitigations?
Do you know of anyone that wants 1 day
Could 1 day be done by a TRA if you do all the planning (would that offer them a cost saving)
Could you adjust to 2.5 days to allow them a better chance to recruit?

•	extra costs that will damage the business
•	the work cannot be reorganised among other staff
•	people cannot be recruited to do the work
•	flexible working will affect quality and performance
•	the business will not be able to meet customer demand
•	there’s a lack of work to do during the proposed working times
•	the business is planning changes  to the workforce
Original poster
CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 14:27

Oh God!! 😆 half a day a week is my planning time, so it’s half a day of cover they need to find.

I am really not prepared for this meeting though….

OP posts:
HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 15/11/2022 20:50

CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 14:27

Oh God!! 😆 half a day a week is my planning time, so it’s half a day of cover they need to find.

I am really not prepared for this meeting though….

When will you do your planning if you go to 4 days?

Or are you asking for 4.5 days including planning, but that 0.5 being done flexibly from home?

SilverCatStripes · 15/11/2022 20:56

Hi OP I think you need to be realistic- as a teacher you have a good chance of securing 2.5 days, it’s a fairly common arrangement, are you able to accommodate working 2.5 days or is that no good?

Dont panic you absolutely can not be fired for requesting pt/ flexible work, and if turned down you can put a request in agin next year.

Allboundformoomooland · 15/11/2022 21:11

It's totally normal to have such a meeting. You can take a colleague if you want to. You've had some good advice. I would focus on the benefits to you and the organisation, try to pre-empt any possible reservations, and try to make constructive suggestions about covering the time that you would be out. Suggesting a 3-6 month trial period would make sense. It's a right to request, not a right to have it automatically approved.

devildeepbluesea · 15/11/2022 21:13

It’s good practice to call a meeting in such cases.
Take a companion - they will already know you’re not in the union because your subs won’t have been taken from your pay.
But try not to worry too much. It sounds like they want to work with you to find a solution that works for all.

Original poster
CutiePatooties · 15/11/2022 21:36

I think people are getting me wrong on here - I don’t assume they will just approve my request. I just didn’t realise how formal it would all be and that I could bring a rep, etc.

if I’m not allowed 4 days, then I’ll do 5. It’s just not that deep. Not worth a meeting in my eyes but then I’m new to all of this and have no idea about any of it - just panicked thinking I’ll be sacked or won’t have a job to go back to! I’m getting in my head.

thanks to everyone who has given advice I’m really so so grateful. But can people please stop assuming that I thought I’d be automatically approved, as that’s far from the truth.

OP posts:
Original poster
CutiePatooties · 16/11/2022 10:55

Thank you everyone for your responses. Sorry for being a bit moody in tone as well- bad day yesterday!

OP posts:
bravelittletiger · 16/11/2022 10:58

I've just been through the flexible working process at my work. I had a meeting with a HR person and my manager. So I would say the process is very normal. They definitely will not be about to sack you!!

I had to present a business case about why/how it would work for the business and how I would deal with any issues.

The rejected my request though! I'm currently looking for new jobs!!

HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 16/11/2022 16:37

bravelittletiger · 16/11/2022 10:58

I've just been through the flexible working process at my work. I had a meeting with a HR person and my manager. So I would say the process is very normal. They definitely will not be about to sack you!!

I had to present a business case about why/how it would work for the business and how I would deal with any issues.

The rejected my request though! I'm currently looking for new jobs!!

I had to make a case for flexible working as was successful.

In the OPs situation I would major on still doing the planning but a TA or other resource to deliver on the plan on the time you want to reduce. Demonstrate it'll still deliver quality education but cheaper.

Them bringing HR to the meeting is normal. Ordinary managers don't know the process or rules and can get the organisation in trouble with incorrect statements without appropriate support.

It shouldn't be painful, hopefully you're a valued employee and they want to keep as much of your time as possible.

If they suggest they are going to reject your request you could ask for atrial in order to be able to demonstrate it'll work.

Worst case they still have to let you come back to your normal substantive post.

Original poster
CutiePatooties · 18/11/2022 15:30

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow thank you so much. You’ve put my mind at ease.

I don’t think I am a valued member of staff and my maternity cover definitely IS! So that’s making this even harder for me…. I feel like they would wish for me to not make a return so mat cover can go on a permanent contract.

OP posts:
HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 18/11/2022 16:17

@CutiePatooties I hope that's just you feeling a bit low as you start to plan for return.

Irrespective you have lots of protection and they can't reject and you lose your entitlement to return to your permanent job.

Just be calm, you can ask for what you want, but focus on seeing it through the employers eyes. So here are the things that can be done to make it a positive for the employee e.g. lower cost and maintained quality.

Worst case if they say no then you've said you could go back full time so you are in a good position.

If they won't flex on total hours consider whether they will allow you to do your planning time flexibly and have an afternoon away from school. That may be nice as your child grows up, a chance to be at the other side of the school gates i evening each week.

Original poster
CutiePatooties · 25/11/2022 20:48

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow I’ve been offered a reduced role but on the same pay level for 2 days a week (temporarily) then moving back into a full time teaching post in June (when someone else is due to leave).

I was thrilled at first… as it gives me the flexible transition back to full time… however, now I’m thinking is this a way to get rid of me?

For instance - if they no longer require me in the temporary role.. will I be out of a job completely?

Definitely wish I kept with my union.

OP posts:
HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 25/11/2022 21:21

You can have it documented as a temporary situation to offer some protection I think. Most flexible working requests have a review period anyway.

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