Term time civil servants, can you help? How many hours per week…

[Sillybillylily]

Hello,
fairly new civil servant here (about 8 months in Permanent role). Just went from working full time to part year ( part time and term time only) to cope with childcare demands. I was hoping to work 30 hours a week for the 39 weeks of term time. But recently received word from HR that I can only work 22.5 hours per week if I’m working only 39 of the 52 working weeks in a year!

A bit of a bummer as I was hoping to do a bit more each week! Not sure I can contest this. Does anyone have any experience?

TIA xx

They’re not going to be able to recruit someone to cover the 7.5 hours a week you aren’t doing. They’ve a better chance of getting someone to do 15 or 22.5 hours alongside you.

You’re asking to drop a third of your annual hours after 8 months being full time.

was going to post the same. it's probably difficult (and not financially viable) for them to recruit someone to work 1day a week.

Are you sure they are not saying they will pay you on the basis of 22.5 hours per week averaged over 52.2 weeks but you work 30 hours over 39 weeks?

Can you give a rough idea of your role is it a singleton post or a more generic role e.g. HR Officer, Benefits Advisor etc.

Also are you proposing 5 days x 6 hours or 4 days x 7.2 hours?

Hi @Princessglittery I’m in an AO role after a decade’s break as a SAHM. Childcare has been a nightmare to sort out the past 8 months as I have no family around and my husband mostly work outside of the country for his job. I was hoping for 5 days x 6 hours for the 39 term time weeks. But was told I can only do a maximum of 22.5 if I choose to go term time. I would have been happy with 25 hours a week as well, but HR has come back saying no.

@purpledagger @OnceAgainWithFeeling
thank you. I understand that he logic behind it. Just that we are massively overstaffed already and sometimes we don’t have enough work for all the staffers! I’m in an administrative role with the ministry of justice for clarity. 22.5 hours feels like too little time. I am looking for other jobs on the side but really like the flexibility and location with my current role.

I am a civil servant and part time term time. I work 23hrs per week for 43 weeks of the year ( I use annual week for the remaining weeks) I know someone who does 30hrs over 39 weeks

With the civil service it really depends on 'Business needs' what they can accommodate, this is why I do the 43 weeks as 39 weeks and then my annual leave on top couldn't be accommodated

HR we're not involved in the decision making as it was a local decision

You could ask for further info on why your request cannot be accommodated and then start the compromise discussions

I’m civil service. I work for 24 hpw part year. My colleague works 32 hpw part year.

I'm also MOJ and work term time. I think HR just make it up as they go along. If you go back and ask for the reasons and state your case I think they would cave!

@Mmmmdanone @gingerninja99 @JeniferAllisonPhillipaSue Thank you!! That’s exactly what I wanted to know! That the number of hours per week is not set in stone…

I will get in touch with HR/Team leader and negotiate to work up to 5 hours a day.

🙂

@Sillybillylily have you actually put in a formal request or just asked informally?

Have a look on your Intranet and find the flexible working policy. It should have a form to complete, it should be very similar to this one www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-right-to-request-flexible-working-form

You need to complete this and spend some time on the two sections 3. Impact of new WP and 4. Accommodating the new WP.

Use the valid reasons for refusing a request to structure your response. These are:
Reasons for rejecting

• Employers can reject an application for any of the following reasons:
• extra costs that will damage the business
• the work cannot be reorganised among other staff
• people cannot be recruited to do the work
• flexible working will affect quality and performance
• the business will not be able to meet customer demand
• there’s a lack of work to do during the proposed working times
• the business is planning changes to the workforce

If you have done this then appeal using this format.

You may need to do a little research, ask your line manager who does the staff budget and ask to talk to them. They will be senior but if you explain what you are looking to do they may be able to explain what the FTE headcount is and where they can/can’t lose resource. See this as development as well, knowing how the staff budget works is useful knowledge.

At AO level often there are a lot of people doing the same/similar role so what you are asking is not usually unmanageable. Talk to the senior manager about other ways to address the resourcing issues.

22.5 hours strikes me as too specific, like they have others working part time and you going to 0.45 FTE for the year and 0.6 weekly hours probably leaves a gap of 1 FTE that is easier to fill.

One reason my be a ban on recruitment.

I know this is a long post but thinking about this from the employers perspective means you may be able to suggest a solution or compromise.

As an HR professional in the CS one of the best part time patterns for the business is 5 x 6 hours and I found as a manager you often got nearly full time productivity.

Come back if you have any questions once you have digested this.

@Princessglittery You’re too kind! Thank you for the detailed reply.

I did indeed fill up the change in WP form and sent it off but my Team Leader and Unit Manager took pity on me and fast tracked the approval before HR officially did so (I was struggling really badly with limited childcare and was waiting to clear probation to change WP to term time-part time for the new school year).

So for about a month I worked 5 days x 6 hours (which is what I put down in the form) and then had an email come through from HR saying I can’t continue with 30 hrs/week and can only do 22.5.

As for recruitment, they are still hiring candidates for the same role, so no ban that I am aware of.

I was crestfallen on learning I could do only 4.5 hrs/day or 22.5/week. Feels like I pop in and pop out so quick, although I do get more time to sort out the kids. Like you’ve mentioned I am going to take it up with my unit manager and see if I can negotiate the hours to come up to 25 per week.

As for staff budget, I work for the OPG and we are self funded. There’s never been any cuts or other issues that I’m aware of. So they really should have no reason to reject my appeal. Will keep you posted when they get back to me. Thank you for taking the time to explain to me though. It really helped :)

Hang on a sec @Princessglittery I think you maybe right ! 😯

It might be that they were basically explaining in the email how my salary would be pro rated for the entire year! Not necessarily that I could only work 4.5 hours a day, which my newly appointed Team leader may have mistakenly assumed. I will have to clarify this with her. Thank you again. X

I am also an AO with DWP, I am part-time part-year, I work 27 hours a week, 48 weeks a year. Job can be mundane and stressful but love the perks!

I did 18 hours over 3 days so I didn't have to take a break.

I was an HEO on full time (36 hours) term time only. Pay averaged throughout the year so same pay every month.

When I went part time term time we had no work, I spent all my 18 hours opening & packing post or scratching around for work in different teams.

I hope I am right.

@Princessglittery turns out you were right! My newly appointed Team Leader misinterpreted the email HR had sent to her! It was just regarding the breakdown of pay over the year; she had gotten confused and assumed that meant I can only work 22.5 hours per week 😐

I had a chat with her and clarified everything! Glad I flagged it up one week into working a 22.5 week. Thank you again @Princessglittery You we’re a great help. I am back to working 30 hrs/week over term time only. Which is what I had initially wanted. 🙂

What a relief, great result.

@Sillybillylily I’m so pleased for you. Glad to help.