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Original poster

How do we get him fired?

31 replies

Dodgyfella · 02/11/2022 17:14

NC before posting for obvious reasons.

I recently took a job in a very busy office, with lots of layers of seniority due to the amount of roles we cover. As soon as I got there I had a very weird and uncomfortable conversation with one guy who works in a supporting role (so helps us all but has no direct manager/structure the same way we do). It was about his dating life and way too much info. I just figured he was an over sharer as he is very loud and chatty generally.

Later, several colleagues came to tell me to watch out for this guy as he is a serial groper, harasser (unusually both men AND women have been groped by him). He considers because he is ‘touchy feely’ with everyone this isn’t harassment. He’s had numerous warnings and talkings to by our department manager apparently but he is still working there.

I had a discussion about my job with the CEO today, who is surprisingly hands on with managing and it usually works. However I was unclear on one element and asked if I will be expected to aid Groper’s department. She said no, don’t worry you won’t have to work with Groper.

So- she does know. Why else would she bring it up like that? And if the CEO knows, can we do anything? Nothing has been proven as he gets people on their own then plays the victim but it has definitely happened more than once. I have a history of sexual abuse and feel uncomfortable working with Groper just walking around, able to do what he wants.

OP posts:
CourtAppointedHairdresser · 02/11/2022 17:18

Jesus the organisation sounds like it's covering up for sexual harassment. Just get the evidence written down and get HR to terminate his contract for gross misconduct! Or depending on the seriousness, involve the police. The women and men at your workplace deserve to be safe!

Sprig1 · 02/11/2022 17:21

If he touches you inappropriately report it to the police, that should do the trick.

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 02/11/2022 17:30

If he touches me I absolutely will be going to the police, no doubt about that.

The difficulty is HR’s response so far is to have a word, send him to equality training, but not actually do anything. Everyone else sees this pathetic response and gives up. So far I’ve seen the side of him but not actually had anything police-worthy.

OP posts:
Sewwhatmrmagpie · 02/11/2022 18:36

I'm sorry you're in this position.

I stumbled across a similar situation where I work not so long ago - the guy had groped a female staff member and his management excused it by saying he is "very tactile". Absolute disgrace. I won't say how on a public forum for privacy reasons but I did find a way to get it addressed properly and better support put in place for any similar incidents - such things are now taken much more seriously and people are being dismissed for it.

If you report it to the police you may force the issue - or you may not. It sounds like they are hell bent on protecting him for whatever reason, and they aren't obliged to dismiss him. What they are are doing is the easy way out. All too common sadly.

At the end of the day tho, if you don't feel safe and it's clear your employer isn't going to do anything meaningful to protect you, you'll be better off working elsewhere for your own well-being.

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 02/11/2022 19:51

I am actively applying for other roles; it will not reflect well on me to leave this one so quickly but better that than work with this guy.

I assumed they would be obliged to dismiss him at some point- but it seems not. It’s disgusting and really quite disappointing because otherwise the job would be as close to perfect as you can get.

OP posts:
Crazycrazylady · 04/11/2022 09:51

Realistically there is nothing you can do unless he does something to you.
You have just started the role and all you have at the minute are rumours ( which sound true) but you a) have no proof -b) didn't affect you
.so you can't raise a grievance even if you did have proof.

Honestly I find it unbelievable that bay company would knowingly ignore a sexual predator in their organisation

Notacompetitiveundereater · 04/11/2022 11:08

You can’t try to get someone fired based on rumour. I’m really surprised you think you can.

Rainbowshine · 04/11/2022 11:23

It might be that no one has given the management the evidence of what’s happened to justify disciplinary action. You need a decent amount of evidence to justify dismissal, and quite often I have experienced people saying they have an issue but won’t provide any examples of what they experienced and I only have general information that the person needs addressing. So all I can do is educate the perpetrator through training and advise them about what the standards are. Believe me I find this situation dissatifactory as an HR professional of 30 years experience having seen this too many times. Good employers find a way to work the process to get rid of the bullies and harassers (post me too there’s been a change of approach generally, to get rid of the perpetrators and not pay off the people reporting issues) so that’s something. You could see if you can raise concerns anonymously through a whistle blowing program as that compels the company to investigate.

inigomontoyahwillcox · 04/11/2022 11:25

I don't know about "getting him fired" but(assuming you're in England) you should submit a formal grievance to HR, they should then carry out an investigation.

Take a look here for the process.

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 04/11/2022 11:34

It isn’t just rumour - he has told me face to face that he was sent to harassment training and thinks it was ’stupid’ and went on to complain about how ‘men can’t even talk to women since me too happened’. He thinks I am on his side as I didn’t know what was going on during our first conversation, so smiled and gave neutral responses. He has also made comments about wanting to see me dressed up outside of work because I am young and probably go out clubbing. He has also mentioned he is banned from going in x person’s office (one of his victims) but thinks it is her ‘being sensitive’.

Each incident has been reported to HR. I reported the conversations about his sexual preferences and wanting to see me dressed up. Nothing has happened.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dodgyfella · 04/11/2022 11:37

Sounds like I just have to wait for him to do something then go to the police. Not great for my PTSD but hey ho. He keeps ‘coincidentally’ going into the shared kitchen at the same time as me so I’m guessing it won’t be long, he hasn’t done anything because no one will let me be alone with him, other coworkers keep an eye out for when he follows me in there.

OP posts:
inigomontoyahwillcox · 04/11/2022 11:43

Have you tried giving ACAS a call?

catandcoffee · 04/11/2022 11:59

OP what's stopping you from warning him off ?
The fact he's following you in the kitchen means he's waiting for the opportunity.

Can you practise warning him off...like looking in a mirror and saying " I've heard there's a groper who works here if anyone touches me... they're in deep shit " type of thing ?

I understand its easy to write this down but you like the job. Don't let a pervy bastard let you leave.

Wishing you luck.

Tillow4ever · 04/11/2022 12:28

Not quite the same situation, but to demonstrate that your company should be doing way more.

Years ago I worked in a supermarket. There was a man who collected the trolleys in, and several women had complained that he was "flashing" at them as they left the building at the back.

So one day the manager and her assistant, both women, set up that one of them was hiding outside and the other switched places with one of his usual victims. Sure enough, he flashed her as she got outside, to which the manager yelled "caught you you pervert" and he was promptly sacked.

Now that was over 20 years ago now, so I'm sure procedures have changed to make it harder to sack someone - but the point was they listened and they acted. They got the evidence they needed.

Your company is simply covering up for him.

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 04/11/2022 13:57

I hadn’t heard of ACAS before, will give them a call.

I could be proactive and warn him off. I guess I feel nervous because I already have proof that they will cover for him, but I am new and in the most junior role in the entire department, so feel quite vulnerable in that regard too.

@Tillow4ever thats great that they caught him like that!!I love how involved the manager was and that they were proactive about it.

I guess my real aim in posting is that I want a way to force HR’s hand - but I suppose short of police involvement that won’t necessarily exist.

OP posts:
Tillow4ever · 04/11/2022 14:19

@Dodgyfella thinking back to it all now, I've just remembered more. He was a guy in his 40's or maybe 50's and he still lived at home with his parents. His mum came in screaming at the manager for sacking him. Turns out he told his mum he was sacked for taking too long on his breaks. The manager who hid in the area had filmed the whole thing and apparently the room went very awkward when she showed the mum the video who refused to believe the claim without evidence.

Not thought of that story in years.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 04/11/2022 14:34

Hi OP, this sounds so much like my last workplace it's chilling. Serial grabber and harasser who everyone knows about but no-one does anything about because 'oh, that's X.' In fact I was asked in my interview how I felt about banter (yeah, huge red flag in retrospect when that banter turned out to be sexual assault), so it wasn't as if he hid his behaviour.

It was eventually sorted when a new colleague marched into HR and complained about the groping and the demands to know when she was going to sleep with him. Even then it took months and a tribunal to get shot, I'm afraid.

EBearhug · 04/11/2022 14:47

He considers because he is ‘touchy feely’ with everyone this isn’t harassment

His harassment training was crap then. (It probably wasn't; he probably just ignored what it said.) It counts as harassment if the person on the receiving end feels harassed, regardless of whether they're one of many or no other victims, and regardless of the harasser's intention.

Join a union, log when he follows you into the kitchen and anything else. If nothing else happens, then fine, but if he escalates, you will have the log.

If it's for a protected characteristic (which includes sex,) you don't have to have worked two years before you can submit a grievance.

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 04/11/2022 15:03

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain l’m sorry you had to deal with a workplace like this - it’s so frustrating. I hate ‘banter’. It’s just an excuse to be sexist or homophobic.

I’ve just got off the phone with ACAS, they were really helpful and I know exactly the processes I can follow. I don’t want to be the one to walk in and blow everything up, I don’t want the reputation or anything but I can’t tolerate him and he’s not going to stop it (he told me while laughing that he argued with the equality trainer).

OP posts:
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 04/11/2022 15:10

He reckons he's protected and bombproof and it sounds like the workplace is such that he's not wrong. Good luck with wiping that smile off his face.

Ted27 · 04/11/2022 15:22

@Dodgyfella

Well done, it takes guts to put your head above the parapet but until someone does he will carry on.
The other staff will be very grateful to you.
Good luck

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 07/01/2023 18:18

Dodgyfella · 04/11/2022 11:37

Sounds like I just have to wait for him to do something then go to the police. Not great for my PTSD but hey ho. He keeps ‘coincidentally’ going into the shared kitchen at the same time as me so I’m guessing it won’t be long, he hasn’t done anything because no one will let me be alone with him, other coworkers keep an eye out for when he follows me in there.

Don’t know if anyone remembers this thread, but yep it happened as I expected it would. When the office was quiet as most people on annual leave he took the opportunity to touch/rub himself up against me. Does anyone know what I can do if my office continues to protect him?

OP posts:
PleaseCleanTheWholeToilet · 07/01/2023 18:21

Phone the police?

Original poster
Dodgyfella · 07/01/2023 18:24

I have zero evidence. I’ve been to the police about an actual rape before and they did nothing, I don’t expect much to come of a guy rubbing his crotch on me in a cctv blind spot.

OP posts:
WinterDeWinter · 07/01/2023 18:25

I think you should tell boss that you have been made deeply uncomfortable by his comments and feel that one in particular (you dressed up) was sexual harrassment. That you are really surprised that the company does not appear to have considered the implications of failing in its duty of care to staff, in terms of protection from sexual harrassment, especially those who may have a history of sexual abuse that they do not wish and are under no obligation to disclose.

That you feel strongly about this on a personal level and from an Equality Act perspective, such that if you feel you must seek another role because of his continuing presence you would feel obliged to go to a tribunal.