Civil Service- mistake?

[Elli123]

Hi, I recently joined the civil service after a long service in another public sector organisation. This has been a total career change for me, I’ve been there 6 weeks and hating it!!! I’ve practically been given no induction or training and pretty much just been left doing very little. My line manager is in back to back meetings so has spent approx 3 hours in total with my in 6 weeks. I’m mainly home working as all of my team are in a different location. Are all civil service departments like this?
I applied for another role in a different department at the same time as my current one and although I passed the interview for this, I’ve found out I’ve been put on the reserve list. I had hoped this might be an escape route…,
Im now wondering if maybe joining the civil service was a bad idea (I was attracted by flexibility and pension as still have primary school kids). Both jobs are SEO level.
any thought/ advice appreciated.

Take initiative and do your own projects that may be useful to keep you busy ?

SEO is relatively senior so I'd expect you to have a lot self directed work to be doing and less involvement with your manager, is there a specific process you need training for? Can you build your own development plan: work shadowing, introductions that kind of thing?

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I am all for self directed work but feel I need some knowledge and training in what is a totally new area for me with lots of complexities before I can shape the role. I’ve been proactive in setting up chats with colleagues and digging about for info but have no idea/feedback if I’m heading in the right direction. I’ve had a few external meetings where I feel totally out my depth due to lack of knowledge. I guess I need to raise this with my boss but just wondered if this is a typical scenario or if other departments may be better?
As I mentioned, I’m on another reserve list which may come to nothing so debating whether to start the long process of applying for new CS vacancies 😱.

It's really hard to say as I only have experience in one sector in a few organisations, but I would say I've never had training at SEO but equally haven't needed it because it's not like an EO in an operational area of DWP for example where there's a system to learn. For me I needed to build up organisational knowledge which I could do myself, and as an "expert" in my field I knew the gaps I needed to fill for the organisation if that makes sense. Can you say what profession you're in? Operational, policy, HR etc as that might help?

I work in a different area of rhe civil service (scottish) which operates a bit differently, so some of this might not apply....

We can't move jobs with the Scottish Gov until we've completed a probation- it would be worth checking the rules for your area so if you need to, you can get your head down and focus on getting through that period initially. However, once you've got through the probation, moving around is fairly easy, and at the minute with recruitment freezes in place there are lot of "level transfer" jobs being advertised (I.e. no promotion involved) as teams are trying to get the staff they need without new recruitment or promotion involved. This may well be the case for a while to come, so moving could be a really easy light-touch process once you're past probation.

We have monthly check-in conversations with our line managers, if you do the same it would be worth pushing the point a bit with them at this to see if you can get more support and training in place. I've been where you are and hated it (but did manage to move on level transfer pretty quickly and loved my new role!!).

Really sorry to hear you’re hating it. This depends so much on your profession and area of work. I’m an SEO in a digital role and it’s pretty normal and expected for people to be self-starting and take the initiative - but you should also have a supportive manager.

Are you actually having regular catch-ups with your manager? Do you have any objectives? Have you got a buddy - if not maybe ask for one?

Also, it’s hard to say if all civil service departments are similar as you haven’t said anything about the type of job you’re doing. There are many different roles and professions and types of work. Whether this is the norm will really depend on what you do.

What profession are you in?

Depends on which CS org you are in and to some degree the team you have been placed. But yes at SEO most teams i have been in would expect you to hit the ground running after being given your project/workload and required next steps and go and speak to the rest of the team.

You need to speak to your manager if gou aren't confident

At SEO level you are pretty much expected to sort yourself out, arrange your own work and projects as well as manage those beneath you.

It's considered a senior managerial grade.

Thanks for all the answers, really helpful.

I haven’t had 1-1s with manager so far. I asked for a catch up last week and he has since put in weekly 1-1s with me for 25 mins.
Rather than needing training as such I think I need more knowledge. It’s very much a digital project role and I have joined having no experience of digital so I am trying to learn systems, processes, tech speak as well as all the new legislation that’s connected with it. They knew I had no digital experience at interview and kind of said I didn’t need to.

The other post in question is more of a line management role. I have lots of experience of managing a team so may be easier but as I say, I’m on the reserve list so might not get an offer. This was an external post to do I guess I’d be resigning from current post and restarting (rather than transferring). There’s no line management responsibility in current role as very project driven.

almost packed it in last week with nothing to go to😱. I know that’s not sensible but really unhappy. Not sure how honest to be with manager or try an tough it out a bit! My heads all over the place tbh.

Have you been given objectives and been told what you are responsible for?

No not all depts are like this. You need to raise this with your manager

Word of warning - join the union. I am a union rep in a CS department and currently have 5 personal cases involving SEOs who have come into the CS from private sector or local authority, and are being told they are failing their probation. In all of the cases they have been left to get to grips with their new jobs with very little managerial support, and have been told they ask too many questions. No serious performance concerns raised until the 5th month right before probation review, they are then being told they aren't meeting expectations of the grade.

I haven't got to the bottom of why this is happening all of a sudden, but suspect its because SEO is a really hard grade to start in the CS at, and we had a massive recruitment drive during the pandemic. I started at HEO (am now Grade 6) and found SEO a big learning curve even though I knew the department well by then.

@MilliwaysUniverse i also think it might be that salary wise, external entrants see the SEO salary and assume it's comparable to their private sector role, when their private sector role was more like HEO level. Nature of CS vs private sector salaries etc

Our dept is currently having some issues with new entrants now having been in the dept for 18months and not understanding why they cant go up the pay scale / get a promotion. I suspect we will lose a load of them back to the private sector.

Thanks everyone. I certainly didn’t expect my hand to be held at this level but I did expect to get the knowledge & tools to do my job. Needing to involve a Union at 5/6 months sounds terrible especially since I’ve given up a good, comfortable position to join! Maybe just better to look elsewhere!

Have you told your manager how unhappy you are? They've gone to a great deal of effort to recruit you and won't want to have to replace you.

Some managers will be extraordinarily busy, but that doesn't excuse not supporting you. If they can't manage themselves they should have asked other members of the team to help you.

Do your projects have project managers? They may be able to help you get up to speed without you having to ask questions in front of the customer or end user.

Can you ask for a mentor? An L&D plan? Have you tried job shadowing colleagues at lower and higher grades? Plenty of time to settle in. Do you mind giving a hint as to which dept (I'm guessing DEFRA)

It’s a central govt dept🤨. They’ve yet to recruit a Project Manager. My line manager seems really nice and accommodating but very senior and very busy with meetings.

all good suggestions, it’s all made a bit more difficult by everyone being spread wide geographically. I guess I’m thinking I need to push for knowledge to get a clearer understanding, maybe there’s time enough yet?
one more question- do you still need to go through the full recruitment process (tests, personal statements, interview for level transfer if I did manage to get through probation?

Re level transfer: it really depends on whether it’s an informal internal transfer or an external move, and on what recruitment methods have been chosen for that campaign.

Really sorry to hear you’re feeling so unsupported. It’s not great that you weren’t having 121s before.

I don’t agree that SEO is always a really hard grade to come in. I do think it involves taking charge of your own development but you should feel supported in that.

Good managers will have regular 121s and will let people know straight away if they need to improve.

@FivePotatoesHigh you are right that managers should offer support, regular 1:1s and give constructive criticism at the time something happens, and how to avoid it in future, but as most people (in my department at least) are line managers by virtue of their grade, not whether they are any good at it or enjoy it, it's not a given that a new starter will have a decent induction. I might sound a bit cynical and negative - I actually enjoy working in the CS - but I have come across some horror stories (from both sides, sometimes there are real issues with someone and the manager doesn't know what to do).

Anyway one big piece of advice - start a timeline of what has happened since you started - dates of training, any feedback and what you did to address it, when you have had 1:1s, and keep a note of things that happen. Its an insurance policy you might never need to use, but it can be really helpful if you need to refute anything in future. Hopefully you will never need to and things will be fine. If you are in my department however (the one with a revolving door for the SoS), definitely involve the union.

On the level transfer front, some are classed as "managed moves", but where I am this is a much softer process. Candidates would need to provide some evidence they meet the essential criteria and then there'd be an informal chat.

If you're applying for jobs which have been advertised as external/promotion opportunities you'd have to go through the same process as anyone else. HR should be able to let you know of any managed move opportunities, though ours are also notified on our staff newsletter too.

At the minute there's a lot of them- the attempt to downsize staff numbers organically and reduce overall staff numbers means that recruitment externally/allowing people to apply for promotions are being severely limited, so everyone is advertising managed moves in a bid to get people who are already at that grade to move into vacancies.

And yes, as you go further up, you are expected just to throw yourself in and get on with it- but fundamentally you should feel supported while you are getting to grips with your post.

A lot of jobs say in the advert that you're expected to remain in post for 2/3 years depending on grade, and a key reason for that is the time needed to become fully useful. Whe you can move around fairly easily between policy areas etc, inevitably there's a steep learning curve in a new post.

But you should feel supported while you go through that stage!!

No, you just do an application form and interview for internal transfers (and promotion).

are there people you can reach out to in other teams to build some knowledge?

You won’t be on the reserve list if you have accepted a job. If you are then it’s a mistake.

SEO is not very senior so I would expect you to be given a fair amount of direction and specific projects/tasks. You need to speak to your manager and explain your situation.

I would also advise you to arrange meetings with others in your team and in the wider directorate to get an idea of what others are doing and where you fit into the bigger picture.