I think a work colleague has autism

[LavendersBlue32]

Hi,

I work in mental health and one of my colleagues is showing very clear signs of Aspergers Syndrome and it is having a seriously negative impact on their work.

This colleague has already been given spoken to by senior management regarding issues raised by staff (attitude and patient care)

Aspergers runs in the individuals family and when I say this person ticks every symptom box, I mean every box.

I have a good professional relationship with them and would hate to see them lose their job, which is the direction they are heading. I have been considering having a very informal chat over it and suggesting it's something they look into however I don't know if it's my place?

Thank you, I really appreciate this comment.

Hi OP - I think your concern for your colleague is really kind

I think bringing this up with your colleague and management is a good idea

An old school friend is a GP and struggles with empathy for patients: her diagnosis was life changing for her

The ‘how’ to get the message across I don’t know but raising it with the person is probably a way to start?

I don’t really think it’s a reasonable adjustment situation tbh. I also don’t see why it’s this or nothing in Healthcare for them? I’ve had plenty of colleagues who would have ramped in an Aspie diagnosis if it had existed when we were young (yes, I will call it that as I have one who was diagnosed under the Asperger’s term, along with many of their friends, and it is their preferred term). Asperger’s didn’t exist as a diagnosis in the DSM when my gen was growing up but did for our children and now of course some fools have gotten rid of it and they are all autistic (good luck having a conversation with them about this as many rightly refute and will only accept the Asperger’s term they were diagnosed under).

I can’t tell you the number of surgeons I’ve worked with that that would tick every box, or indeed the sheer number of other medico’s in the hospital system and I was exposed to every specialty via my area. Don’t get me started on psych’s either, not saying ASD is rife but I struggle to think of one I referred to that wasn’t severely off-kilter themselves. So, I really don’t think it’s a must leave the profession as you are making out. In fact a nurse (presume that’s what the colleague you are referring to is?) with ASD probably would have been okay in the main in my area if primarily assigned to trauma related stuff and probably wouldn’t go too badly in ICU either and would fit like a glove in theatres.

Unfortunately he sounds completely unsuited for for the job, and quite abusive (whatever the reason). Those poor vulnerable patients! Having experienced mental health care from the sharp end over some years I’m sure he fits in just fine with the other staff; there’s plenty others that behave like him.

Hi OP.

I'm autistic and work in a mental health field. I also still refer to myself as having Aspergers because that is my diagnosis, I'm comfortable with the term as it's better understood that just 'autism' so it's convenient for me to use it in certain situations. It's true that it's a term that is no longer used when diagnosing, for understandable reasons, but I don't think you should beat yourself up for using it either because it is still part of our lexicon.

As I said, I work in mental health myself, and I have professional dealings with people in your role, so I'm often in the same environments you work in and understand what you and your colleagues deal with as I work with the exact same people who are your patients. I know I could not do your job because my personality sounds very similar to your colleague's. All-night singing would have me in a raging temper, and I wouldn't react well to patients touching me either. For that reason I can empathise with your colleague, but that still doesn't mean that their actions are reactions are definitely down to being undiagnosed autistic. It certainly could be, because I think those aspects of my personality are inherently part of my autism, but it could equally be that your colleague is just a perfectly neurotypical person who isn't at all suited to their role.

I can understand your concern for them, and I think it's creditable that you clearly are thinking about their wellbeing and that of your patients, but I honestly do not think it's your role to go discussing autism or their actions with your colleague if you are neither their manager, their partner, their doctor, or a therapist that they themselves have approached. It's entirely possible your colleague has already been through the process of being assessed, and if they have not, they may well react negatively to your involvement, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a complaint could see you facing disciplinary action yourself.

Sometimes with people who genuinely are living with an undiagnosed condition it does take a third party making a well intentioned suggestion for a light to go on and lend some insight into what someone might be experiencing, but I don't believe that's an appropriate thing for you to be doing given that you are simply a colleague employed in the exact same role that they are. If anything, it might be appropriate to mention to whoever manages you both that you have some concerns about their behaviours, and if you are asked to elaborate you might want to mention that your suspicion that the negative behaviours perhaps have an explanation other than your colleague simply being uncaring or compassion fatigued.

Regardless, for the sake of your patients if nothing else, I think their behaviour does need addressed, but I don't think the way to begin going about that is for you to approach them directly about the possibility that they may be autistic.

Good luck whatever happens.

@akabluebell thanks for saving me having to write exactly the same post! Diagnosis has been incredibly helpful for my (high functioning) dc. May well be the making of them.

My ds has found sessions with a psychologist enormously helpful and can now say to us if something is driving him crazy and remove himself from the situation without anyone taking offence. He's learned more about giving himself space, quiet and breaks which has really improved his mental health. It's not a 'cure' or 'treatment' as such but having the tools to express himself, understanding the impact of situations that don't bother NT people and learning techniques to calm himself have been invaluable for him.

I'm sure that was what the OP was trying to express, I know there's lots of misunderstanding around autism but jumping down the throat of someone expressing concern for a (potentially) autistic colleague isn't actually helpful. Now if you want to rage about people who say 'everyone's somewhere on the autistic spectrum' I'll be frothing along with you.

OP I think you should discuss your concerns with your line manager, you won't be doing him or the patients any favours by keeping quiet. You don't have to offer your 'diagnosis' but could express concern about him and the patients and observe that you have noticed some autistic traits. If your line manager works closely with autistic patients as well, I'm sure they will understand what you mean!

Op have you broached this with your colleague?

I had to do this once - I was in training with someone so obviously unable to do certain aspects of the job and she was absolutely ripped to shreds by colleagues. She kind of clung to me because I was asd friendly. (My son has Aspergers- that's his diagnosis before anyone leaps on me )

I had to broach it in the end . She had no idea , but we sought the advice of a senior manager and she was sent for assessment with a view to reasonable adjustments.

She was diagnosed. Reasonable adjustments were out in place however she proved to be a liability as far as safety went and was eventually dismissed- however we stayed in touch and she sent me a thank you card . Her sibling and nieces / nephews also got assessed following this .

It depends how you go about things . Personally I don't think it's a bad idea to talk to them about it

If you're worried about patient care, safety and their conduct at work you need to bring up these concerns with your manager and leave the autism aspect alone.

He may have autism, he may not.

What I've learned in MN over the years is that unless someone has a declared diagnosis, any inappropriate socially-directed behaviours that one may think might point to someone possibly benefitting from a diagnosis, shouldn't be made allowances for. Seems a bit unfair to me, but that's the thinking on here.

And actually in this particular case, I'd agree.

Whether, or to what degree, your colleague feels empathy or not is irrelevant. What's important in your job (and actually anywhere where empathy is called for) is that you can display it. He consistently isn't. While his personal situation is important, the well-being of his patients takes priority. Anything else means that patients are expected to make allowances for his inappropriate behaviours. This isn't acceptable and is actively detrimental to their mental health.

Your patients need advocating for firstly. If that means he needs to find/be moved to another job, then sadly, that's what needs to happen. Maybe there's a role that requires less interaction with patients/vulnerable people that he'd be more suited to? Forget the diagnosis idea, but look at the current reality: can you think of a role where his skill set and knowledge could be used positively? Maybe drop that idea in conversation with your boss if you're going to report his behaviours but also want to help him? My DH does have a diagnosis and tbh he'd behave like your colleague if he were in that role. However, he works in a role that actually uses his traits to the advantage of him and his company (and his diagnosis is undisclosed - I'm the only one who knows). He found a career path that works well for him. I say that to emphasise that it's not discriminatory to suggest someone isn't suited for a role. Personally, I'm entirely unsuited for my DH's line of work.

I don't think you needed to apologise for using the wrong words - your intention here is clearly to help someone, you didn't come on to badmouth or attack people with autism. And the Asperger diagnosis, while problematic in some ways, also was beneficial to many people: the current diagnosis of autism is SO broad, that saying "he has an autism diagnosis" is meaningless without significant further explanation. I know people diagnosed with Aspergers who would today be diagnosed with autism, who stick to Aspergers label, because they feel it better describes them without much further explanation. It can be a minefield to talk about and it's a shame when posters with good intentions are attacked.

I'm concerned that you're a professional and yet you come onto mumsnet sharing all this information and call it Asperger syndrome.

This!

But also, don't share details on Mumsnet.

And I wonder if this thread and your wedding invitation thread means you could be identifiable

You clearly need some training with regards to neurodiversity and confidentiality.

Good luck with not outing yourself. I'll surprised if this hasn't been screenshot and shared online...

What? Every shift there is an incident? He shouldn’t be in this job at all.

OP has shared enough details on MN some people will be able to recognise her colleague. She has amateur diagnosed a medical condition that is frequently stigmatised and if their colleague does have it they have every right to privacy.

OP made judgemental and simplistic statements like

when I say this person ticks every symptom box, I mean every box

If they actually knew as m,I had as they say they do about the condition they would know that Aspergers is not used anymore and diagnosis is not a simple ‘tickbox’ exercise. They would also know that being diagnosed with this condition is a distressing experience for some and they need time to adjust to it.

OP has also either exaggerated the number of incidents to justify themselves wading in and telling colleague they are doing it all wrong and it’s because they have this condition that OP has amateur diagnosed, or OP has ignored large numbers of patient affecting incidents

There is no third option here, it’s one or the other

and people think OP is the nice person

I will continue to defend the rights of people with a disability to privacy and for the right not be bullied and harassed by colleagues. If being direct in pointing that out to someone who has done the above makes me a not nice person I can live with being a not nice person.

@StillNotAGirl it's fucking offensive isn't it.

Agreed. it's disgraceful and insulting.

OP sounds like a cruel & calculated bully. With no regard for people's privacy.

Perfectly summed up

It's a really difficult situation

No, it isn't.

It is totally inappropriate for you to raise any suggestion of a possible diagnosis with your colleague.

If you were his LM, awareness that he had a diagnosis that needed accommodation might be relevant - but it's still inappropriate to make the suggestion.

It's the responsibility of the individual

Furthermore, this individual is experiencing performance management issues & it does not sound like he should continue working where he is. Your involvement & suggestion of a particular diagnosis (based on very poor understanding by you) is likely to complicate matters & potentially put you in a difficult position.

You can of course discuss concerns you have with your own manager, without attempting to diagnose your colleague.

This. Start learning more about Autism by never using that term again. I don't know any Autistic adult that would be ok with use of Asperger's and many who find it deeply offensive and triggering. I personally hate it, knowing what that man did to children like my DS.

It's also not correct medical terminology anymore as the diagnosis all fall under ASD now. There are 3 levels assigned to ASD under the DMV, but most of the Autistic adults I know and many parents of Autistic kids are not comfortable with terms like high and low functioning.

Erm, you can't cbt yourself out of a neurodiversity.

No, but CBT-like treatment is provided (by our local service at least) to autistic people to help with anxiety issues etc that are part of their autism.

Op I think your colleague regardless of whether or not he has any kind of neuro diversity, is not suited to the job at all.It’s not your responsibility to sort this out or make it better for them but it’s nice to see you care for this person.

@Hanleys please could you provide the Twitter link? I've searched but can't find it.

I don't know any Autistic adult that would be ok with use of Asperger's and many who find it deeply offensive and triggering. I personally hate it, knowing what that man did to children like my DS.

Well, you don’t appear to know many people, now adults, who were diagnosed with that term under the DSM at the time. They have grown up with it, identified with it, and now many don’t want to have it replaced with a term they don’t identify with at all. They don’t see themselves as representing a German man who murdered children, but as something they came to terms with over a long journey. No one should tell them they should be considered even more atypical for not wanting to relinquish the term they were diagnosed under, gre up with and have embraced as part of themselves. Another handy hint, if they want to shorten it to Aspie and prefer others to use that term with them also, that’s their business and right and no one else’s.