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Original poster

Anyone else had to resign after flex work refusal?

51 replies

Downandout01 · 24/09/2022 09:38

Just wondering if anyone has ever been in similar position?
My flex work request for part time was refused. I appealed and raised grievance (although not one about being refused but about way the process was incorrectly handled, didn't follow internal policy) to no avail. CEO who heard appeal said they would consider giving me part time if I gave up leadership role and to talk to my line manager. I did and asked if I could relinquish leadership temporarily for a period of time that was mutually agreeable. Line manager said no in meeting- it is give up leadership role permanently and be part time lower level role or return full time from mat leave in leadership role. I explained that this put me in a very difficult position etc.

After a few weeks of soul searching and number crunching I emailed line manager and asked if I did give up leadership role what level of part time could they offer in lower level role.
He replied and said part time in lower level role wasn't an option and I either return full time in leadership role or full time in lower level role.
I responded expressing confusion because this wasn't what was discussed in our f2f meeting previously. He remained adamant that he had never offered option of returning part time in a lower level role.
I am now going to have to resign my job and am praying I can find something else quickly.
Is this constructive dismissal?

For further context a colleague in same role as me, also on mat leave, had her flex request denied too
She was also then offered return part time on lower level role or full time in leadership role. She chose part time lower level role and has just signed new contract.

OP posts:
Original poster
Downandout01 · 08/10/2022 21:15

Thanks for all your responses.
I thought I had posted a reply the day after my original post but seems it didn't actually post which is annoying.

Anyway, as much as it boils my piss too (to quote a PP) and definitely disproportionately impacts women- I've looked elsewhere and got a new role to go to. This is because Not handed my notice in yet as still need to sign contracts with new place. New role is lower level and pays slightly less but is part time hours and atm for me that's what I'm needing.
Since posting OP I have heard on wind from colleagues in my department that my mat cover may be offered part time hours from Jan.... which is when I would be due to return. I can't begin to explain how infuriating that is to me. I just don't think I've got the energy left to pursue it though if it is true.

OP posts:
EnormousPuppaccin0 · 10/10/2022 06:16

I work in a team
2 people were refused work from home

2 other people were allowed WFH at a later date

Really unfair

Company just seems to make it up to suit their own plans

Affected the moral of the whole team

I am looking to leave, due to being what I consider to be treated unfairly within a team

sandytooth · 10/10/2022 06:23

Look into indirect discrimination

EnormousPuppaccin0 · 10/10/2022 06:36

When I leave which will hopefully within the next 6 months (plans are ongoing)

I will be communicating to my team & wider team about the unfairness

Everyone is aware & I've complained so many times verbally & in writing to the management

However, it is their loss !

FredaFox · 10/10/2022 06:45

My only thought would be is surely they can't give everyone part time hours? Sounds unfortunate two of you asked at the same time
It doesn't feel fair for you but I don't think it's discrimination as your old job is there for you

Good luck in the new role

OneForTheRoadThen · 10/10/2022 07:00

Did they follow the correct process I.e. refused for one the permitted reasons and in the correct time frame?

DrDetriment · 10/10/2022 07:11

It doesn't sound like a great company but they are within their rights. When I worked in a senior role I was tired of women always wanting part time or flexi hours after having children. It isn't always possible and I hesitated about employing women at that stage of life for exactly this reason. They disappeared on mat leave for a year, then wanted part time, there was always a child related emergency and everyone else had to carry the can for them.

EnormousPuppaccin0 · 10/10/2022 07:15

I'm complaining about FT WFH

Some people allowed, others not
Exactly the same job
Not child related

averageavocado · 10/10/2022 07:55

Sestriere · 25/09/2022 06:39

Couldn’t you and the other colleague have job shared?

I would have suggested this also

averageavocado · 10/10/2022 07:56

DrDetriment · 10/10/2022 07:11

It doesn't sound like a great company but they are within their rights. When I worked in a senior role I was tired of women always wanting part time or flexi hours after having children. It isn't always possible and I hesitated about employing women at that stage of life for exactly this reason. They disappeared on mat leave for a year, then wanted part time, there was always a child related emergency and everyone else had to carry the can for them.

tired of women always wanting part time or flexi hours after having children

them pesky wimmen eh?

Treezylover · 10/10/2022 08:04

Really hope you were at the forefront of ensuring your company equalised parental leave so that he burden of childcare didn’t fall solely on women, then?

second the advice of contacting pregnant then screwed. Also have a look at the commitments your company have pledged about women in leadership positions, which they probably have, maybe in their gender pay gap report if they’re big enough to have one.

ihatesteve · 10/10/2022 08:04

Sounds like indirect discrimination - leadership has to be full time thereby disproportionatly affecting child rearing age women. Have you got legal expenses on your home insurance? If so they may fund a solicitor to look at this for you. Don't do anything without advice. Also recommend contacting acas. Donyou have a union?

Treezylover · 10/10/2022 08:05

DrDetriment · 10/10/2022 07:11

It doesn't sound like a great company but they are within their rights. When I worked in a senior role I was tired of women always wanting part time or flexi hours after having children. It isn't always possible and I hesitated about employing women at that stage of life for exactly this reason. They disappeared on mat leave for a year, then wanted part time, there was always a child related emergency and everyone else had to carry the can for them.

Sorry my reply was to this 🙄

ColinRobinsonsfamiliar · 10/10/2022 08:05

Yes I had to resign my position because of this.
23 years at the same place, 7 years in senior management position.
I didn’t even want to reduce my hours, just change the working pattern.
I had been working flexibly and running my own diary for all of that time. Working over and above and extra to help out for years.

New manager (never been in a management position before) flat no.
I appealed, still a no.
I had no choice, I had to leave.

About 2 years later I ended up back there, had a job made for me, climbed back up the ladder to the senior position again.
That manager had long gone by then.

Being pregnant screwed my career.

Pinkyxx · 10/10/2022 08:16

This whole matter makes my blood boil. Work they say, support yourselves they say... yet this is what having children and having a career actually looks like. Sacrifice and marginalization. I don't disagree that some roles cannot be done part time, however, they are fewer than people would like to think. Flexible working can improve matters enormously (WFH, condensed hours, different working hours etc) yet eludes so many.

Until there is a right, enshrined in law, to work flexibly, women are simply going to continue to be screwed.

sandytooth · 10/10/2022 08:26

DrDetriment · 10/10/2022 07:11

It doesn't sound like a great company but they are within their rights. When I worked in a senior role I was tired of women always wanting part time or flexi hours after having children. It isn't always possible and I hesitated about employing women at that stage of life for exactly this reason. They disappeared on mat leave for a year, then wanted part time, there was always a child related emergency and everyone else had to carry the can for them.

Why were you tired of it? Why didn't you work with them to find flexible hours that suited and if not available just say sorry not available. not sure you're suited to people management tbh.

ChiefFinderOuter · 10/10/2022 08:41

All the people saying job share, in my experience companies are very reluctant to do job shares. Mine refuses point blank. I think two part time employees works out more expensive overall than one in benefits etc. Two employees instead of one means two people to line manage, more line managers, and so more expense there, and so on. I’m not saying I agree, I think it would probably save them money elsewhere, just pointing out that a lot of companies will not agree to job sharing.

worriedniece · 10/10/2022 09:37

user1487194234 · 25/09/2022 05:46

Definitely not constructive dismissal
Position re colleague irrelevant
You have asked,they have said no
You either return or leave

Is it irrelevant? That's a precedence? What formal reason was given for refusing part time? They have to state why.

worriedniece · 10/10/2022 09:40

@Downandout01 return, but really for flexible working again next year. If they refuse again, then if you want to stay, do the bare minimum

Original poster
Downandout01 · 10/10/2022 13:03

Sorry (and angry) to hear some of you have experienced similar. I did contact PTS at the time and on their advice pursued grievance. However the grievance came back (from external HR guy employed by employer ) to say that nothing untoward had been done blah blah.
I think it is because of this grievance that employer suddenly went back on what had been discussed in person re me returning to lower level role on PT basis. Wounded male ego, how dare woman question his judgement/decision etc. And here's my punishment.
I should probably have contacted PTS/union again after they went back on the offer of lower level role part time but I felt at that point I couldn't return- there was clearly going to be a target on my back if I did go back and so I put my energies into job hunting, applying and interviewing. Not easy when juggling 4yo and baby but needs must. The entire experience has been really horrendously stressful- there have been a lot of tears from me and has hugely knocked my confidence as cannot help but feel that 'if I was good enough' they would have tried harder to support my flexible request. For the rest time in my life I came very close to asking docs for meds to help control my anxiety disorder which went into overdrive.
It is unbelievable to me that in 2022 this shit is still happening.

OP posts:
user1487194234 · 10/10/2022 13:18

@worriedniece
Not saying they don’t have to give a reason etc
Simply saying on the facts presented it is not constructive dismissal

HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 11/10/2022 10:58

Which of the 7 available reasons have they used to reject your request? They can only use one of the below. Depending on their response you can plan a counter argument to identify how it can be mitigated. However if you can't identify a mitigation then you may be better able to accept their response.

For example work not being able to be reorganised- mitigation suggestion may be a job share covering the hours you are reducing.

Not being able to meet demands - look at the hours you want work and try to align with peak periods of work or again job share to cover the gap

Quality and performance- suggest a trial period to demonstrate performance won't be impacted etc.

•	extra costs that will damage the business
•	the work cannot be reorganised among other staff
•	people cannot be recruited to do the work
•	flexible working will affect quality and performance
•	the business will not be able to meet customer demand
•	there’s a lack of work to do during the proposed working times
•	the business is planning changes to the workforce
twinmum2022 · 11/10/2022 21:55

DrDetriment · 10/10/2022 07:11

It doesn't sound like a great company but they are within their rights. When I worked in a senior role I was tired of women always wanting part time or flexi hours after having children. It isn't always possible and I hesitated about employing women at that stage of life for exactly this reason. They disappeared on mat leave for a year, then wanted part time, there was always a child related emergency and everyone else had to carry the can for them.

You sound like an absolute tit.

geraniumsandsunshine · 12/10/2022 16:35

user1487194234 · 10/10/2022 13:18

@worriedniece
Not saying they don’t have to give a reason etc
Simply saying on the facts presented it is not constructive dismissal

Sorry, I might not have communicated clearly. I agree that it isn't constructive dismissal.

DrDetriment · 14/10/2022 10:51

twinmum2022 · 11/10/2022 21:55

You sound like an absolute tit.

Show quote history

Thank you. A very reasoned based response as ever from the mums of MN who think the world should revolve around their needs in the workplace.

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