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Original poster

Go to Employment Tribunal?

168 replies

WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 18:08

Should I do this? I'm really upset after being dismissed during my probation, particularly as I had asked for adjustments (due to disability) and these were completely dismissed.

OP posts:
Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:42

AnneLovesGilbert · 22/09/2022 20:40

Are you job hunting at the moment?

Yes, why?

OP posts:
titchy · 22/09/2022 20:42

WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:39

What does money have to do with it? Upholding rights under the law, what's the point in having them?
At least from this thread I know what they might throw at me.

But you never even mentioned disabilities until you were told you were under-performing! If you genuinely needed reasonable adjustments made you'd have raised that in your first week.

InGodweTruss · 22/09/2022 20:43

Presumably, you are not in a union? Do you have legal cover with your home insurance?

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:44

Dannexe · 22/09/2022 20:40

There is a lot of bad advice/information on this thread.

Your story is inconsistent and in general it is likely to look like you are making excuses at the point of imminent dismissal. However - IF your final version of the timeline is correct and can be verified and IF you can establish that you were clear about the condition and its effects on you and IF you are successful in showing that your condition amounts to a disability then on the basis of that timeline you may have a claim for a failure to make reasonable adjustments. There is no obligation to make adjustments until the employer has knowledge of the disability and adjustments only have to be made if they are reasonable. Extending probation is unlikely to be found to be an adjustment that ought to have been made, providing visual aids might if it can be established that they would help, ignoring errors will not be.

You may have a claim if you've declared a disability that could have been the cause of your failure to perform to the required standards but it is unlikely to be worth your while pursuing it.

Muddying the water with unreasonable requirements around anxiety and speculation about whether your manager likes employees with children (statistically most employees...) will not help your case.

Take some legal advice with copies of your documents and a very clear timeline plus evidence of your disability (GP notes will be accessed by the employer and you are likely to have to have medical assessments to prove the vision issues).

Well everything I've said is in black and white via emails.

OP posts:
titchy · 22/09/2022 20:45

Well everything I've said is in black and white via emails.

And unless your timeline is completely different to what you've posted here it clearly shows you never mentioning adjustments until your performance was flagged an issue. Which supports the employer.

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:46

titchy · 22/09/2022 20:42

But you never even mentioned disabilities until you were told you were under-performing! If you genuinely needed reasonable adjustments made you'd have raised that in your first week.

Show quote history

I didn't have a chrystal ball. Anxiety on its own is very real and a bullying unsupportive manager who gives not a jot about the law didn't help. I at least want to send a signal to her that she was being discriminatory.

There is no union or even an HR department, sadly.

OP posts:
Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:48

titchy · 22/09/2022 20:45

Well everything I've said is in black and white via emails.

And unless your timeline is completely different to what you've posted here it clearly shows you never mentioning adjustments until your performance was flagged an issue. Which supports the employer.

I didn't raise it till I realised it might be having an impact on my work. If that supports her then so be it, my conscience is clear.

OP posts:
jessieminto · 22/09/2022 20:50

@WorrieaboutFIL As a manager and disabled employee I have found forums like this to be a godsend. The mixed bag of helpful advice, incredulity, inability to understand the problem and the outright offensive is a direct reflection of society in general.

This is what we are up against in the workplace.

This is why discrimination happens on a daily basis.

This is why disabled people are twice as likely to be unemployed.

I know some of these comments are totally unacceptable, and I've reported them. They are all true reflection of how managers view you in the workplace. Use this to understand what others think, even though they are wrong.

To be successful you need to learn how to navigate this level of bullshit, how to present your disability and needs with as little negativity as possible and how to ask for adjustments without coming across as entitled or awkward. Even though you shouldn't have to. Even though the law is there to protect you. It doesn't. I'm sorry. And I know all to well how hard a lesson this is to learn. I've been where you are. Flowers

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:52

jessieminto · 22/09/2022 20:50

@WorrieaboutFIL As a manager and disabled employee I have found forums like this to be a godsend. The mixed bag of helpful advice, incredulity, inability to understand the problem and the outright offensive is a direct reflection of society in general.

This is what we are up against in the workplace.

This is why discrimination happens on a daily basis.

This is why disabled people are twice as likely to be unemployed.

I know some of these comments are totally unacceptable, and I've reported them. They are all true reflection of how managers view you in the workplace. Use this to understand what others think, even though they are wrong.

To be successful you need to learn how to navigate this level of bullshit, how to present your disability and needs with as little negativity as possible and how to ask for adjustments without coming across as entitled or awkward. Even though you shouldn't have to. Even though the law is there to protect you. It doesn't. I'm sorry. And I know all to well how hard a lesson this is to learn. I've been where you are. Flowers

Thank you 🙏

OP posts:
MiserableMillie · 22/09/2022 20:52

Hi OP

I'm disabled and have experience of starting a new job, and reasonable adjustments not being made. I struggled to do my job, and wasn't dismissed, but it escalated in horrible ways and I nearly resigned as a result.

The short version of my story is I had been trying to resolve the problems informally, that wasn't working, HR picked up an email I'd sent to someone else without my knowledge, everything escalated and, rather than solving the problem, I was put under quite extreme pressure.

It became a formal process and I was close to resignation so I took specialist legal advice, which was really helpful.

Part of that advice was to tell me that any tribunal would be incredibly stressful with no guaranteed outcome because tribunals around this kind of discrimination are unpredictable, even when the evidence is clear. (The legal professional agreed it was very clear in my case.)

Also in my case, I loved my job and wanted to keep it, and I had support from immediate managers and close colleagues.

The legal professional talked me through what my options were, and I made a decision based on what was right for me at the time. I didn't go to tribunal, but what is right for you may well be different.

I think before you make any decision about how to proceed, take proper advice from a legal professional - you do need someone who specialises in employment and disability discrimination, most will give you initial advice for free

There is an organisation called the Disability Law Service who are a charity who will definitely give you initial advice for free. Talk to them and see how you feel.

dls.org.uk

Good luck, I know it's an awful feeling when this happens.

jessieminto · 22/09/2022 20:54

titchy · 22/09/2022 20:45

Well everything I've said is in black and white via emails.

And unless your timeline is completely different to what you've posted here it clearly shows you never mentioning adjustments until your performance was flagged an issue. Which supports the employer.

This isn't true at all.

Underperformance is noted and feedback provided.

Employee takes on board feedback and asks for support to improve. Discloses disability they have but did not know was impacting performance to the extent it appears to be. Only aware of impact now feedback has been given.

Onus on employer to provide support - not fire employee a few hours later.

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 20:55

MiserableMillie · 22/09/2022 20:52

Hi OP

I'm disabled and have experience of starting a new job, and reasonable adjustments not being made. I struggled to do my job, and wasn't dismissed, but it escalated in horrible ways and I nearly resigned as a result.

The short version of my story is I had been trying to resolve the problems informally, that wasn't working, HR picked up an email I'd sent to someone else without my knowledge, everything escalated and, rather than solving the problem, I was put under quite extreme pressure.

It became a formal process and I was close to resignation so I took specialist legal advice, which was really helpful.

Part of that advice was to tell me that any tribunal would be incredibly stressful with no guaranteed outcome because tribunals around this kind of discrimination are unpredictable, even when the evidence is clear. (The legal professional agreed it was very clear in my case.)

Also in my case, I loved my job and wanted to keep it, and I had support from immediate managers and close colleagues.

The legal professional talked me through what my options were, and I made a decision based on what was right for me at the time. I didn't go to tribunal, but what is right for you may well be different.

I think before you make any decision about how to proceed, take proper advice from a legal professional - you do need someone who specialises in employment and disability discrimination, most will give you initial advice for free

There is an organisation called the Disability Law Service who are a charity who will definitely give you initial advice for free. Talk to them and see how you feel.

dls.org.uk

Good luck, I know it's an awful feeling when this happens.

Thank you and sorry you had to go through a similar experience 🌺

OP posts:
MiserableMillie · 22/09/2022 20:56

jessieminto · 22/09/2022 20:50

@WorrieaboutFIL As a manager and disabled employee I have found forums like this to be a godsend. The mixed bag of helpful advice, incredulity, inability to understand the problem and the outright offensive is a direct reflection of society in general.

This is what we are up against in the workplace.

This is why discrimination happens on a daily basis.

This is why disabled people are twice as likely to be unemployed.

I know some of these comments are totally unacceptable, and I've reported them. They are all true reflection of how managers view you in the workplace. Use this to understand what others think, even though they are wrong.

To be successful you need to learn how to navigate this level of bullshit, how to present your disability and needs with as little negativity as possible and how to ask for adjustments without coming across as entitled or awkward. Even though you shouldn't have to. Even though the law is there to protect you. It doesn't. I'm sorry. And I know all to well how hard a lesson this is to learn. I've been where you are. Flowers

I fully agree with this, OP.

Good luck to you. X

Dannexe · 22/09/2022 20:58

I think before you make any decision about how to proceed, take proper advice from a legal professional - you do need someone who specialises in employment and disability discrimination, most will give you initial advice for free

Proper advice from an employment solicitor is required, however most will not give initial advice for free. I'm really not sure where this belief came from.

WeDoNotTalktoPennilynLott · 22/09/2022 21:00

It seems like you wanted them to make reasonable adjustments to help you, but refused to use reasonable adjustments to help yourself, like wearing glasses or making the screen display larger...

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 21:01

WeDoNotTalktoPennilynLott · 22/09/2022 21:00

It seems like you wanted them to make reasonable adjustments to help you, but refused to use reasonable adjustments to help yourself, like wearing glasses or making the screen display larger...

No that is not what happened

OP posts:
Crazycatlady83 · 22/09/2022 21:10

Get legal advice. Listen carefully to that advice and don't throw good money after bad. Find another job as quickly as possible (if you do take it to tribunal they will expect you to mitigate your losses)

daisychain01 · 22/09/2022 21:14

@MayThe4th your statement of fact is not correct:

and not declaring a disability which you are going to require reasonable adjustments for if asked can be a dismissible offence. Not because it’s a disability but because you have withheld information.

witholding information about a disability when seeking a reasonable adjustment is plain daft (why wouldnt you want to give your employer facts that enable them to support you with RAs). But it isn't a sackable offence.

MiserableMillie · 22/09/2022 21:15

Dannexe · 22/09/2022 20:58

I think before you make any decision about how to proceed, take proper advice from a legal professional - you do need someone who specialises in employment and disability discrimination, most will give you initial advice for free

Proper advice from an employment solicitor is required, however most will not give initial advice for free. I'm really not sure where this belief came from.

I probably should have said some will - I was able to get initial advice about my options without paying for it. The disability law service, who I linked to, are a charity and certainly will offer that for free, or be able to direct to someone who will.

Apologies for bad wording, was multi tasking.

Whichwhatnow · 22/09/2022 21:17

Floweryflora · 22/09/2022 20:30

If you go through consolidation, you might get a few hundred pounds to go away.

are you kidding, the chances of this are non existent.

Depends on the company tbh. Where I worked previously were very worried about their reputation and were also incredibly busy so would throw money and a settlement agreement at any suggestion of discrimination in a dismissal or redundancy situation to make it go away. Some of the cases were far less convincing than this.

Floweryflora · 22/09/2022 21:44

Op I’m not an employment lawyer but I work in this arena and manage similar issues.

thr bottom line is what you are posting here is inconsistent.

you say you were trying to improve and a reasonable adjustment was a bigger monitor. But on knowing the issue Over two to three months you never found time to see an optician to resolve your eyesight issues. In addition using larger font didn’t help , which confirms a bigger monitor would not have changed the issue either; it was an irrelevant adjustment. You had the ability to make the font huge and it still didn’t help.

you also state you didn’t know there was an urgency, there Is always an immediate requirement to do your work to thr required standard. You clearly knew you weren’t performing to the required standard, as you state you were trying to improve, so why no optician visit and the bigger font didn’t resolve the accuracy issue is difficult to comprehend.

you also state you suffer from anxiety which is compounding the issue, so wished an adjustment there too, but seem unable to articulate what that is. Other than to indicate they should make their delivery gentler. Delivery is subjective and very hard to argue. What one person sees as harsh another can see as gentle.

right now you’ve failed to show what reasonable adjustments would have supported you to do your job to the required standard. As a bigger monitor and being nicer in their messaging clearly isn’t it.

in addition uou should have acted as soon as you were struggling, immediately asked for adjustments and stated what you were doing ie glasses, use of font, training on MacBook, revisiting your gp on your anxiety etc you seemed to not have done at least the optician claiming over several weeks you didn’t have time.

im sorry but if you’re going to stand a chance here you need to be able to prove you asked for the adjustments in a timely manner and they would have supported you to do the job, right now, it appears Neither is the case.

you asked earlier why it mattered if your story was muddled. Accuracy is important. Particularly if you wish to go to tribunal, as your company will be accurate and present a very different story. The story many of the posters here are picking up.

people are trying to help you. There is no point going down the tribunal route if you can find someone to support that, if it will just cause you stress and end up with nothing.

GoTeamRocket · 22/09/2022 21:50

I suspect that this employer/ job role was not a great fit for you. There were things that were not working in your favour from the start (I.e different computer than what you were used to) and things that built up between you and your manager. Different expectations.

You may or may not have a claim, only an employment law specialist can tell.you thst after reviewing the evidence. But, you have two choices:

  1. Find an employer who is a better fit, focus your energy on this. When settled with new employer, take a moment to thank your lucky stars you have a found a job that works for you.

  2. pursue it through ET. But be aware, you may be lucky and you may find employer who can't be arsed to defend the claim and settles. Or you may spend the next 2 years wading through the ET process.

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 21:52

Floweryflora · 22/09/2022 21:44

Op I’m not an employment lawyer but I work in this arena and manage similar issues.

thr bottom line is what you are posting here is inconsistent.

you say you were trying to improve and a reasonable adjustment was a bigger monitor. But on knowing the issue Over two to three months you never found time to see an optician to resolve your eyesight issues. In addition using larger font didn’t help , which confirms a bigger monitor would not have changed the issue either; it was an irrelevant adjustment. You had the ability to make the font huge and it still didn’t help.

you also state you didn’t know there was an urgency, there Is always an immediate requirement to do your work to thr required standard. You clearly knew you weren’t performing to the required standard, as you state you were trying to improve, so why no optician visit and the bigger font didn’t resolve the accuracy issue is difficult to comprehend.

you also state you suffer from anxiety which is compounding the issue, so wished an adjustment there too, but seem unable to articulate what that is. Other than to indicate they should make their delivery gentler. Delivery is subjective and very hard to argue. What one person sees as harsh another can see as gentle.

right now you’ve failed to show what reasonable adjustments would have supported you to do your job to the required standard. As a bigger monitor and being nicer in their messaging clearly isn’t it.

in addition uou should have acted as soon as you were struggling, immediately asked for adjustments and stated what you were doing ie glasses, use of font, training on MacBook, revisiting your gp on your anxiety etc you seemed to not have done at least the optician claiming over several weeks you didn’t have time.

im sorry but if you’re going to stand a chance here you need to be able to prove you asked for the adjustments in a timely manner and they would have supported you to do the job, right now, it appears Neither is the case.

you asked earlier why it mattered if your story was muddled. Accuracy is important. Particularly if you wish to go to tribunal, as your company will be accurate and present a very different story. The story many of the posters here are picking up.

people are trying to help you. There is no point going down the tribunal route if you can find someone to support that, if it will just cause you stress and end up with nothing.

I asked for adjustments as soon as I was aware there was potentially an issue.

OP posts:
Floweryflora · 22/09/2022 22:12

Op how long were you actually there? You say probation was three months and you failed it, but you only worked 12 days. Three months would be 24 days..

Original poster
WorrieaboutFIL · 22/09/2022 22:22

I only worked two months before dismissal, 8 days per month for two months is 16 days, minus annual leave. Do this have a bearing on anything?

OP posts: