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Original poster

Teaching Contract

36 replies

StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 21:52

I'm new to the teaching profession and have recently joined a union because I am unhappy with how management deal and answer queries.

I have a contract of annualised hours, I work around 13 per week which include uplift for prep and planning and cpd time.

My contract states these hours are to be worked over 39 weeks within term time as published by my LA.

So our head of service (for the second year running now) is insisting on us coming in a week before term starts, effectively week 0 on the understanding that there are some weeks that we work less (3 weeks a year due to courses running for 6 weeks not a term fo 7) so this is the way of clawing them back from staff, in advance.

Essentially this means I have a weeks less holiday a year.

Last year it was a woolly explanation due to contracts changing, this year, it's because they are stating the term starts on the 1st September...yet our published term dates do not concur with this, and without wanting tostate the obvious, 39 weeks is not 40 weeks. It is what it is and he is getting us in to work our hours a week over our contractual obligations.

I've spoken to the Union and they are happy to challenge the decision and reasoning, and my rep thinks it will go to the regional branch rep.

Do I have to go in? Should I challenge this? He has explained it but I am not happy with his explanation really, it contradicts my contract and to be honest, I want that weeks holiday!

I feel like when I ask these questions or show dissatisfaction I am being awkward or not a team player, but come on, how blurred can the flexibility be if they can just add on weeks?

Any advice/feedback welcome. I aren't a seasoned FE teacher, so perhaps this is par for the course, but I find it very frustrating.

OP posts:
Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 21:57

Hello, I work in a school also as a TA. I’m contracted to do all insets etc. However if our LSA’s are not contracted to work this. So they don’t! Even though Slt state they’ll give time off in lieu. They still have the right to say no. If it isn’t in your contract to witk those hours then you have every right ti say no with your union backing too x

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:01

Hello,
Thanks for that, when I worked in a school the additional days were explicitly included as 39 weeks +5 days or whatever, far better for insets.

I think i'm going to have to say no, i'm having to find childcare and even though it makes me feel like the problem staff member, I know a swizz when I see one!

OP posts:
Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 22:06

‘ It’s a Swizz when I see one’ exactly that! If they can grab more time off you for free. They will. You won’t be a problem staff member but a member of staff who speaks up and won’t be taken advantage off. Plus the fact if childcare etc will make like more difficult for you x

hoglethotel · 19/08/2022 22:10

New to FE? Yeah, that's the norm I'm afraid. Money is exceptionally tight and management try to get away with as much as they can, as cheap as possible.

I had to do the same for my first year in FE. It's not right, but do you want to start your new job with that start? You don't want your cards marked and SLT do tend to remember such things.

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:13

Well i'm a year in and im not the only one who is really cross about how it's been explained. We work as part of an LA, and although funding is obviously an issue, it doesn't feel like it's a budget issue!

I think they know people are going to be unhappy, i'll see what comes back from the rep if she challenges him as it's a larger issue than just me, it's all teaching staff that are losing a weeks holiday.

OP posts:
Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 22:21

Sorry OP if my answer was wrong. This lady does give a good point. As a teacher it’s different to us as TA’s. However, it really is a case of take! Take! Take! In education which I abhor. But remember, as a TA, this is not my career. As a teacher it is your career.
however, playing devils advocate here. Start as you mean to go on perhaps? With SLT knowing you won’t be taken advantage of?

All depends on how far you want to progress within this role? If it’s eventually management level then this will be taken into consideration

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:29

Yes, I take your point, this wouldn't affect TA's in the same way.

I have been asked if id be interested in going up a rung on the ladder, but it's the wrong time for me, I have a large young family and it would be too much.

I aren't going to challenge this directly, although I feel like it, such a swizz, the Union rep at work is going to email him in her capacity as rep and ask for a full explanation and see if she is satisfied, but she anticipates she is likely not to be, all obviously not with my name on, I can still attend, but at least it may mean they don't do the same next year...

OP posts:
Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:30

And your answer wasn't wrong at all :-)

Saw your point, thank you.

OP posts:
Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 22:38

Ah thank you. I didn’t want to be giving you the wrong advice as we are different job roles.
Congrats on being offered the promotion too. Shows how valued you are there.

i teach French as a TA no extra pay and also am a counsellor at school no extra pay. Which is why I jumped on the whole not getting paid but expected to do extra. It’s a tough job. As we all do it to help and teach children. Who wants to deny a child education? However, that’s what Slt bank on. Us doing it for the kids with no extra pay.

what do you teach? Are you primary or secondary? Not relevant to the post. I’m just nosy!

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:43

Offered might be too strong a word, I was asked if i'd be interested, informally, not sure it was a strong job offer tbh

FE so post 16 - young adults/adults - English.

OP posts:
Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:48

Also, just being devils advocate myself here...

Makes me wonder how they'd log sickness in my actual holiday if say I had an emergency or was ill for some reason. I bet you anything it wouldn't be logged and those hours would still be sat to be done over the 39 weeks which proves it's a swizz.

Urgh, glad I joined a union, I miss normal contracts and 37 hour weeks with flexi time.

OP posts:
Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 22:55

Ah read up on that if you’re employed by the LA www.acas.org.uk/checking-sick-pay/sick-pay-and-holiday-pay

Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 22:56

Have you worked for LA before? You mention flexi Time? How long have you been employed as a teacher?

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:56

Thank you, it's would be interesting to call their bluff in a way and see how they would respond to staff being sick on this invented week of work!

OP posts:
Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:57

Yes, for a long time with an LA, so familiar with contracts/HR and hours as it was a small part of my role at various points.

Thanks will have a look at ACAS but think my union rep will have us covered.

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Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 22:58

So they would have to decide if it was in fact holiday....or term time, which is what they are claiming.

I bet I know what it would be.

OP posts:
Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 23:00

Was trying to pm you but I can’t.
so how long have you been in teaching?

Sarah0611 · 19/08/2022 23:01

Your union rep will have you covered. I’m reluctant to say everything on here though!

donquixotedelamancha · 19/08/2022 23:18

Are you on school teacher's pay and conditions? If so your school should have a directed time budget and a calendar which has been agreed with the unions before the school year starts.

Speak to your union rep and ask for specific advice as to whether these extra days are directed time (i.e. calendared inset). If the union advise that they are not, do not do it and let the union sort it out. Having worked in teaching for 20 years I can tell you that you get no thanks for working for free and it doesn't help you get promotions.

In good schools the people who are promoted are the ones who do their job well and work with others to make sure the work gets done with an eye to reasonable work life balance. The managers who just pile on tasks can ruin a good school and really good schools avoid them like the plague.

In a bad school you don't want a promotion, trust me, you want another job.

It's hard when others are going along with it but eventually you will either say no to unpaid work which doesn't help the kids or you will leave teaching. If that takes years before you break or grow a spine then teaching will make you unhappy. It isn't sustainable to keep doing the stupid busywork. Your career will be much easier if you learn to say no, politely and constructively, now.

donquixotedelamancha · 19/08/2022 23:23

will have a look at ACAS but think my union rep will have us covered.

Acas won't have the specific details on STPC you need, they give very general advice. Union reps vary in quality becuase they are volunteers; you can ring the union employment line or contact the local branch secretary for advice too- do this if there is any delay in resolving. If you wish to PM me for specific advice you don't want to discuss on here (I'm a rep) you are welcome to.

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 19/08/2022 23:46

Hi

I am unsure on teachers pay and conditions as it is not a school, it's an FE provision through the LA. My contract refers to the green book. I'm paid on an equivalent LA grade commesurate with an NQT salary, but FE is different in lots of ways.

We don't have calendered inset days like schools (although this is their attempt at this) it just doesn't wash as it's outside and in addition to the 39 weeks which I am contracted to. We get annualised cpd hours for training to be done...you guessed it, over 39 weeks.

@donquixotedelamancha My union rep does feel that they will struggle to justify the additional week and will report back accordingly. She is a force to be reckoned with and I am happy that she will not get rail roaded on the issue and that she has the necessary experience to push this to the next stage but will PM you as I like to know these things for myself. Information is power and all that!

I agree, it is hard when others go along with it, because they don't have the same caring responsibilities or want to be seen as a team player, or don't care about two extra days, I do.

I am very much a people pleaser at times, I do feel if I can't have boundaries now as a professional and be seen and respected for those boundaries, they will just rail road me over everything.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 20/08/2022 08:39

I am unsure on teachers pay and conditions as it is not a school, it's an FE provision through the LA.

Yeah, sorry, I missed that in your OP. In that case it's simply about what your contract says.

It still sounds like a very simple case and you are quite clear that's 39 weeks not 40. You would be a total mug to work two days unpaid.

donquixotedelamancha · 20/08/2022 08:42

She is a force to be reckoned with and I am happy that she will not get rail roaded on the issue and that she has the necessary experience to push this to the next stage

Union reps like that (when they know their stuff and aren't just being bolshy for the sake of it) are absolute gold. If other staff support them too it makes a workplace much healthier.

Original poster
StrongTea22 · 20/08/2022 09:01

Yes, I am confident in her skills and I don't think that is misplaced. On the face of it she is a quieter lady but underneath balls of steel and has no problem adjusting my world view or of those in management as to how things are being interpreted.

Sadly I have heard some really disheartening stories about Union representation in Secondary and within local government too ehen they have been so ineffective and useless the staff were not sure what they were doing.

OP posts:
WeAreAllLionesses · 21/08/2022 07:18

My contract is TTO no insets.

Our business manager has sent an email asking if we'd like to go in on the inset at the beginning of term.

Er - no thanks!

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