New job - are these red flags?

[Eyelatch]

NC for this.

I wonder if there are any recruiters out there who can clear this up for me? I’ve just started a new job. A couple of things are making me feel uncomfortable:

• There’s no probation period in my contract and nothing about notice given, either during probation or generally, if either of us wants to terminate the employment
• My start date isn’t on the contract (I started on Monday)
• No one has asked me for my P45 from previous job or my National Insurance no.
• There’s nothing about pension scheme in the contract, although in the job ad it was cited as a benefit (and I thought legal requirement)
• My boss emailed me to ask me to complete a piece of work as a matter of urgency before I’d even started the job (I didn’t do it in the end but it put me in a tricky situation, not least because I was on holiday at the time)
• No one who already works there seems to have been there for more than a few months, despite the company being about 7 years old.

It’s a while since I’ve been onboarded so I might be remembering things wrong, but do these seem strange to you?

I’m actually thinking of leaving already…

Have should spoken to HR? If not I would send an email tomorrow asking for clarification on those points The response you get should hopefully help you see things clearer. Good luck.

There isn’t an HR department. (Another red flag?!)

My contract has been issued by one of the directors and she’s my point of contact.

Wouldn’t she think it a bit unsettling if I started asking about notice periods?

@Eyelatch Do they not out source their HR?
Still, you could ask the director by email about clarification of your contract without letting on you’re thinking of leaving.

The first ones are sloppy perhaps. The last two are huge red flags to me.

Probation isn't a legal requirement and some places don't bother with it (even if they actually have it!) because you can dismiss easily in the first two years.

I'd definitely be asking questions about pay and the information required to pay you!

I would say really worrying if a small business and quick staff turnover frequently.

Could you not word it that a friend had a bad experience in a small business so you would wish to get things confirmed early on?

I would want to know about notice periods as the last last small business I worked for were really deluded and actually put in their contact they would not pay any notice in the first 6 months in any event - prior to receiving such a junk contact nearly a month on, I would have understand when no notice periods are quoted then statutory notice applies -
www.gov.uk/handing-in-your-notice

Majority of business does also start pension contributions at 3 months in and quite possibly it can be further delayed until the 6th month. It cuts down apparently on admin from early leavers so the time extension allowed is favoured by some businesses.

Start date again could be an issue if you stay with this company I feel - again deluded business I was once with stated I'd started nearly a week later then I actually did do and I've ended up with no recourse/way to contest around that, unless I had truly a body camera on me, my job offer was verbal and I worked non remote but had nothing to prove I was working each day................................ wasn't a company with a sign in/out point or worked off timesheets so it really made me realise a thing or two! they also informed HMRC my start date was a week later as I've come to notice these days on your personal online tax account, actual dates are now listed rather then just month and year.

Thanks all. I feel really on edge about all of it.

I have now asked about payroll information and the accountant has sent me a new starter form, which also asks for my start date, so at least that’s in writing somewhere.

My question about probation is more to protect myself. If I hand in my notice now could they make me work notice? There is zilch in the contract about notice periods.

Having your boss email you to do work before you've even started there is a red flag. Makes you wonder what expectations will be like when you actually start. Will you start getting emails to do things over weekends, or during your holidays?

Staff turnover like that is never a good thing either.

In regards the the other points, I'm guessing they're just disorganised if they're a small company. I've worked at a small company like that who have never been into all the formalities. It's just "turn up on your first day and we'll sort it out".
It was a shock when I then left for a job at a big corporate company and everything was super formal and set out in stone before I stepped foot in the building. There was even a 1-1 induction on my first day to explain all the company benefits, pensions etc.

Thanks @Username0308

The thing is, they are very big on ‘culture’, so it feels hypocritical that they’re this disorganised. I’ve had 1:1 inductions, training for their task management system (which is a job in itself tbh), and they’ve got a posh, designed ‘staff playbook’. All the benefits have been explained to me umpteen times. The feeling I get despite this is that they don’t genuinely care about the employee.

They seem very clock-watching, which I hate. I’m senior in my role and not young so I appreciate some trust from my employer, and if given it I will always deliver. But even lunch breaks are fixed. It feels like a factory where everyone clocks off and on. God knows what happens if you have a medical appointment (in the ‘playbook’ it says you’re expected to make it outside work hours).

I need more flexibility and trust than this. My gut says all this feels wrong, but I just can’t work out if I’ve lost perspective a bit.

@Eyelatch, what size company? Either turnover or number of employees?

I wouldn't like fixed hours if a senior position as that implies the role is task driven rather than results. Who do you report to? Has that person been welcoming?

We run a small company - my thought for you to mull over - it sounds like you aren't feeling the love - so maybe it's too late?

There’s no probation period in my contract and nothing about the notice given, either during probation or generally if either of us wants to terminate the employment
Probation is there to protect the company from recruitment mistakes - it is rarely designed to the Employee's benefit. Notice period - if someone wasn't happy in the first few months and handed their notice in - we'd have them off the premises/off the company email toot suite!😁 We'd obv pay them notice. Why didn't you ask them about the notice period on the contract - was it not on their offer letter? We often have a bit of to and fro on the terms and conditions - we make our offer and contracts with draft written across them until both parties are happy with them. We want our team to be happy with the contract and the offer letter - we don't employ the kind of people who sign a document they are not happy with.
My start date isn’t on the contract (I started on Monday) Again why haven't you challenged this - you are supposed to be senior - I'd expect our senior team to challenge this?
No one has asked me for my P45 from previous job or my National Insurance no. No one gets a P45 from their x employers in a timely manner, I don't ask any more - they are not required for payroll - we are pretty chilled about them, even our Pension Provider doesn't insist on knowing NI numbers immediately. Haven't tried to run payroll without an NI number though, you may get a hasty phone call on payday.

There’s nothing about pension scheme in the contract, although in the job ad it was cited as a benefit (and I thought legal requirement) We do not place our pension offer in the contract - it sits in the offer letter. Again why didn't you challenge this for reassurance?
My boss emailed me to ask me to complete a piece of work as a matter of urgency before I’d even started the job (I didn’t do it in the end but it put me in a tricky situation, not least because I was on holiday at the time) This is unacceptable - we engage with staff before they start working for us - they often want to meet their team - but no actual work, sounds like they are very busy.
No one who already works there seems to have been there for more than a few months, despite the company being about 7 years old. Staff retention is on the floor - we can't keep people much beyond 2 years, everyone who has left us has had a different reason, they all return for our alumni events and are big supporters of our small company - but they are bright and ambiguous, they have big lives to live...they'd happily talk to a new recruit about their experience of working with us and we'd feel very comfortable with them doing that - we have nothing to hide.

The thing is in a small company - you sometimes have to accept with the best will in the world, if you arrive in a very busy period (and given the request for you do to work before you arrived) everyone is in blue arsed fly mode. Feedback and communication is vital in a growing company, and being a small company and you being senior you must have the ear of the MD, use it? It takes a while to get things off the ground - we are all a work in progress but if we don't get the feedback we can't improve. Act like a senior member of the team and have a conversation with the people who can change stuff - it is genuinely one of the best things about a good small company - we are agile and we can change quickly - you can help improve the culture and tbh if you aren't interested in helping the company grow into a better version of its self - maybe small company culture isn't for you.

Good luck - I hope it works out for you.

Personally I think that there should be a lot more flexibility in the role, especially with it being senior, and also given the change in working habits since covid. It's strange to have such a rigid lunch break when a lot of the country are working flexi-time and working it around their personal lives a lot better.

I can take lunch whenever I want (within reason, obviously can't be taking lunch at 10am), and it's fine if I need to take an extra hour out for a medical appointment. We are all human, life happens, we need check ups etc.

If I were you, I'd give it another month or two and see how it goes since you've already started there and it's not like you have another job to go to? Maybe they may be more flexible on things once you've proven yourself to them and show your commitment. No harm in casually looking on job websites in the meantime though.....