DD hates her apprenticeship how to guide her

[WhatTheWhoTheWhatThe]

Well enjoys the actual work (accountancy) but hates the culture of her office and the quality of the training provider (2 hours online each week) is poor.
my current thought is she gets her AAT level 2 and then looks for another apprenticeship for level 3 & 4 but not sure what the logistics of leaving one apprenticeship to start another is or how to move on without looking flakey.
I want her to carry on with the AAT as I thinks it’s a good long term career option but she’s only 16 so struggling to see past the next few weeks let alone into the next few years. I do think part of the issue is her age and the reality of working when her mates are all laying in bed and rocking up mid morning for a lesson at college or 6th form is hitting her hard at the moment.
actually not sure if this is an employment issue or parenting issue!

How long will the level 2 take?

How long Has she been there? It could very well be the change on culture dynamic for her as she’s so young, it’s hard to adjust and she needs to give it time.

Has she looked for another apprenticeship? You can continue your apprenticeship if you switch companies - I left a company and continued my qualification - but she'd be best off looking for a new position first then asking the question.

what is it about the culture in the office she hates?
it might just be an adjustment problem, the training online for only 2 hours will be the world of difference of being at school

@Bunnyannesummers she’s taken one exam already for level 2 and the final one is in about a month.

@Sunnysideup shes been there 6 months it’s definitely a culture shock she loved it at first, really enjoyed the work but the reality is her mentor mostly works from home so she has been “dumped” so to speak on others who seem to resent giving her the time she needs. I suspect it’s more they have a huge caseload and are under pressure themselves but this very often leaves DD feeling unsure and reluctant to ask for help when she needs it. She doesn’t seem to get much feedback so never knows if she’s up to scratch which again may just be her age and lack of confidence my worry is she’ll feel this way in another firm but it’s hard to gage

@girlmom21 not started looking no but it’s me that’s raising the move as a suggestion as so far her thoughts are on binning it altogether but she doesn’t have an idea of what she would do instead

theres definitely some confidence issues at play and I know she feels very separated from her peer group. The apprenticeship route was originally entirely her choice it’s not something I’d considered after GCSE

I had a trial for an accountancy apprenticeship before and the culture seemed horrendous. Apprentices were basically there just to make coffee for everyone else and print things out. She won’t be able to pass her AAT level 2 with only 2 hours studying a week, not a chance

@chipsandpeas there’s a lot of negativity and back biting in the office. Lots of tutting and sighing when she needs to ask questions. The older apprentice who’s been there a while is quite vocal that it’s not her job to help her and there’s definitely a hierarchy type dynamic to the place that puts her on edge. She’s often given jobs to do that she’s had no training on then feels like a. Inconvenience when she has to ask for guidance. She feels people talk to her in an off tone BUT she is by nature sensitive so I suspect she might be misreading some of it and again at 16 this is her first real world experience of the work place and it’s nothing like school!

@Ncc I agree I don’t see how on earth she’ll pass level 2 with current study allowance and I’m concerned that one apprentice has been there 4 years and not yet got level 4

The other thing I don’t like about the culture of the place is the way management are vocal to DD about their views on the short coming of the other junior members of staff. Very much a “ xx has a poor attitude don’t follow in their footsteps”. Now XX does sound like a bit of an arse but I’m starting to wonder if they’ve just been ground down by their own experiences there.
DD doesn’t care about doing the drudge jobs by the way we’ve always taught her that you have to pay your dues so to speak in the early days of work life and she quite likes the brain break by going round the offices on a tea run!

The truth is that this is a poor apprenticeship. It’s poor supervision and insufficient formal training. Could she not cut her losses and go to college to do A levels? At least she could then get a degree in a business subject and look for a better employer. Or is she wedded to the money and no grad tax after a degree? If she could start again in September, would she? How do you know another apprenticeship would be better?

? I really do think a 16 year old does need to be told how to do things! That’s the point of an apprenticeship, surely? It’s all about learning and working. Not just working!

The above post really shows what can go wrong with apprenticeships. Unsuitable mentors snd staff unwilling to share what they know. You cannot be a member of a team if you are not adequately integrated into the team by the existing members. I would not want to be a 16 year old apprentice with the above poster!

Sorry but this is a really twatty reply. She works really hard actually but she can only do a job if she’s actually taught how in the first place you muppet! Given that they bill clients for her time I’m assuming said clients would like to think she has been trained for the task. If she didn’t care about pulling her weight then she would be conscious about asking questions to ensure she knows how to do the job. If the people she works with have the same dickish attitude then previous posters are right and maybe this is a bad apprenticeship. There’s a skill to educating and training on the job and it sounds like you don’t have it!!
Anyway thanks for your “thoughts” but I’ll be disregarding them as not that useful!

All good questions @TizerorFizz and I’ve suggested going back to college instead. I think she likes the money but isn’t totally wedded to it. I’m similarly concerned that another apprenticeship has the potential to be equally bad. Lots of talking to be done over the weekend but I think if she can get her level 2 first in the next few weeks and then at least she can walk away with something to show for it. Personally I would prefer she went back to college

I work in this sector. None of our staff are on apprenticeships but they all work as assistants at the bottom of the chain and do ACCA in their own time. Would this be more suitable do you think? Most jobs ask for ACA or ACCA so if your dd is doing AAT first it's going to take a while to do that then work through ACCA.

Hmmm. Ok op. She has a supervisor. The mentor is fairly irrelevant and more a touch point,

the first thing she needs to do is book in regular meetings with her supervisor, one to one, I suggest she aims for a quick catch up daily. She should then each week review what’s the plan for the week and then review again at the end of the week. She can proactively book these meetings in.

she needs to speak to her supervisor about how she asks for help or how she goes about learning tasks, it doesn’t seem she’s done this yet, and it isn’t clear anyone is aware she’s struggling as she’s not really spoken to them, so it’s likely they don’t know.

so I suggest before she quits or moves, she needs to be more proactive about reaching out to her manager and trying to navigate this. There is a high chance they think she’s being given very basic tasks and don’t really understand the significance of her issue and she seems to be flailing about asking for help when she should utilise her manager more, she can also book calls in with her mentor but they are less likely to be the one to support training needs.

I will suggest this but it seems obvious to me that her manager should have this covered. She’s 16 and been in the role 6 months as an employee they should be making sure this happens not tutting and sighing every time she asks for clarification on a task she’s never actually been taught. I’m aware she needs to be more proactive but I supervise degree apprentices and the training is pretty clear on what our responsibilities to the student are they don’t have to chase me for supervision, reviews and planning.

Are your apprentices all 16?

OP- I wouldn’t recommend going straight to ACCA and skipping AAT, particularly at your daughter’s age.

I would also suggest weekly catch ups rather than daily- I doubt her supervisor would thank her for that level of frequency.

I think firms offering apprenticeships vary significantly in terms of quality of training and support. What sort of size is the firm? And is your daughter preparing accounts or auditing them?Larger firms will typically have a bit more structure around apprenticeship schemes.

She is working full time and studying part time at the same time. To pass exams she will have to study out of work too. If the online learning is during work hours that is a bonus as a lot of times the lectures were after work in the evenings with study and homework/exam pratice being the individuals responsibity. That can be hard for a 26 year-old let alone a 16 year old.

As for in work she appears to be unfortunate in so far as her training is not being supervised in person and the culture is not great. But she can learn what a bad culture looks like and how people play power games and what that dynamic looks like. If she remains and learns to deal with it, she gains a valuable life skill in how to spot a-h employment situation.

She needs to be more proactive in booking time with her mentor. I would suggest a scheduled 5 min morning and afternoon video call would be proactive with the option to cancel if it is not needed. And/or she has a list of questions she accumulates which the mentor goes through.

If she is assigned a task she needs to get an explination of what is required but more important who is in charge of reviewing the work. As that is the person she should be asking to resolve any issues. Again inless she gets stuck, the list of her questions can be done at hand over. As in I was not sure of X or Y, I did Y due to [reason] was this correct.
Rather that be eger with teamaking she would be better off trying to volunteer to help her seniors do small work tasks that way its a reciprocal trade in time.

She needs to try find a solution to what is currently holding her back, once she try's she can decide if it is the job or the employer who is the problem.

will suggest this but it seems obvious to me that her manager should have this covered. She’s 16 and been in the role 6 months as an employee they should be making sure this happens not tutting and sighing every time she asks for clarification on a task she’s never actually been taught. I’m aware she needs to be more proactive but I supervise degree apprentices and the training is pretty clear on what our responsibilities to the student are they don’t have to chase me for supervision, reviews and planning

sure but your answer surprises me, I thought you wanted to help her fix this, this response indicates that’s the last thing you wish to do? And if you supervise apprentices why have you not already suggested this to her?

Any chance you can get her into college in September? She may lose the year she's done, but would give her a couple of years to grow a bit, and she'll still have the work experience from what she's done. Two of mine went into work at 16 and I don't think the majority are ready at the age, unless it's a very supported environment.

Thank you this is helpful. You’re right she needs to really unpick what the main issue is as it’s all blurring into one bigger sense of feeling overwhelmed. I’ll talk to her about proactively booking in some time with her mentor. She has raised concerns about the online learning and training provider and has spent time looking at alternative training providers and passed that on to the company who are open to using someone else so she’s is trying to find some of her own solutions.

It’s certainly an option and you’re right it might be even with all these suggestions it is that she is just not ready. She’s very mature in lots of ways but also fairly sensitive and lacking in confidence at times. Hence why this is partly and employment issue and partly a how to parent teens issue!

I am in practice and this is not how we treat our apprentices. If I saw members of my team tutting and huffing in response to questions I'd pull them up on it. Not acceptable.

You acknowledged caseloads - we have times where we are very overloaded, but that's not our apprentices' fault. Worse case scenario we would find them some work they could do with a little less input while we dug ourselves out of a hole - but otherwise, we make the time for them. It's important.

So please don't think any accountancy apprenticeship would be like this. Size of the organisation and culture will be factors in finding somewhere that has better skilled staff in training her and a more supportive culture.

Somewhere big enough to have an intake of more than just one apprentice at a time - and that has a proper HR dept running apprenticeships - might be a better fit as they are more likely to have the skills and culture to support her. She'd also have more peer support if she's got a few fellow "first year apprentices" around not just older ones who've been there a while.

(For instance, as a rough sense, I'd expect a lot if not all places in the top 50 practices would meet that measure, I expect places in top 100 would too, and maybe outside it. But that might give a starting list of practices to research? I wouldn't necessarily suggest top 10 as those are very pressured cultures and don't sound like they'd suit her - but for her to research.)

I agree with pp that AAT is the right starting point for a 16 year old. It's giving people the grounding and adjustment time to the workplace etc. Our apprentices do 2 years AAT then can move on to an ACA/ACCA contract if that's right for them. I wouldn't be trying to go all the way to L4 AAT necessarily unless that's all she wanted to do.

Online learning is hard, but there is usually an element of self-directed study expected from our apprentices too. It's not about abandoning them, it's more that learning to direct your own learning is an important skill to progress in accountancy as in future she will need that for the more advanced exams and to be confident to do her own research on client's technical points etc.

It's better if there is also some 'real' time at college with people too, but having an allotment of self-study time in the office each week is possibly not unusual.

There is no harm in her requesting regular one-to-ones with her manager. In an ideal world they'd have initiated that, but sometimes managers in practice assume if it's not requested then it's not wanted. (Realistically, most managers in practice are promoted based on their technical and client skills over their people management - it's not a lack of care for staff they just may not appreciate she needs it.)

Maybe goals can be to find a few ways to make getting through L2 more manageable (e.g. 1-2-1s); weigh up seriously how much of this is 'grass is greener' looking at her friends / culture shock (the first 6 months in any role are an adjustment); research other practices that take on apprentices to identify a short list and start applying? Also think about long term - is the plan 2 year apprenticeship and move to chartered training contract (ACA/ACCA) at 18?

What is the exit on her contract though, how much will she have to pay back? Sometimes a new employer will cover that but possibly less likely at this level.

All of that said, sometimes we have apprentices who realise that actually "accountancy is not for me, this isn't what I thought it would be" and they leave to do something entirely different.

Whatever she decides next, it was a really brave step to take on an apprenticeship at 16 and she should be proud of that.

I work for a training provider for apprenticeships. Sounds to me that her trainer from the provider needs to step in and assist to get this sorted. I have to do workplace visits every six weeks to carry out reviews with the employer and apprentice. We set targets together and any issues are raised, documented and a way forward is discussed. My priority is always to ensure the apprentice is receiving the quality and quantity of training that the employer has agreed in their apprenticeship contract to provide. If not they are in breach. I've very often moved apprentices to an alternative employer, sometimes it's just the wrong fit. Your daughter needs the support from her provider, she's 16 and in the world of work for the first time. Remember the provider and employer are receiving government grants/funding to provide your daughter with a service. Has she been getting these review visits? Sounds doubtful, it's a condition of funding and is audited.