Bullying? What to do

[Bruegelsmom]

Name changed.

I work for a large organisation and for a while we have had a toxic culture. Factions, cliques, unfairness. I hate it but finding it hard to find another job at my level anywhere.

last week we had our usual work development away day. Traditionally we’ve all gone out after, pub, restaurant etc. it’s never really been a formal arrangement we just end up in the pub across the road.

this year…went to the event and afterwards it became clear that a restaurant had been booked. I hadn’t been included in arrangements along with 2 of my colleagues. Everyone else knew about it! I have an idea who made the arrangements. She’s someone who has the ear of management and always arranges social events. I’ve long accepted I won’t be invited to the ‘in group’ nights out but this was different. It was a work related event in working hours. And it was arranged to exclude 3 people.

I have no idea how or why this happened. I don’t know what to do about it. I would leave if I could. This feels very horrible and actually exclusion for social events is in the dignity at work policy,

no good reporting to my manager. She’s complicit in this. Just looking for ideas on how to handle it.

The other 2 are pretty gutted tbh. Good point about HR.

OP @FannnyCraddock is right - HR allow bullies to get away with it especially as "you are the only one who has a problem with the individual" doing the bullying.

This is why I said you must keep in contact and preferably befriend the others that are being excluded. Don't let the bully and others in the bully's circle know that you and these others are communicating with each other.

Anyway you need to leave before this destroys your health.

@Bruegelsmom
Be careful about using the term bullying. In schools, who have detailed anti bullying policies, there is always a definition of bullying. It’s rarely one single act of exclusion. Bullying is usually repeated acts. Therefore by all means approach HR but one act of exclusion, whilst unpleasant, might not trigger much action. If you have other instances, you need to log them. If all 3 of you spoke to HR it would have more weight.

In my experience, I have to agree with Fannny

@SheldonesqueTheBstard You have to define bullying though. One act of exclusion to a social event outside work might not be sufficient evidence of bullying as it’s not sustained actions.

No offence but I think a lot of advice from TizerorFizz is kind of minimising/projecting.

The OP doesn't have to have all the answers. This would make anyone feel like shit, it's not professional or decent at a work event and the OP is within her rights to raise this. It would be a good place to start a conversation about this.

I'm just pointing out that the consistent saying this isn't bullying or exclusion when it could well be is likely putting the OP off doing anything.

It may not.

But what I think fannny was saying is that even if it was classed as bullying, HR will not necessarily be on the side of the OP.

i underwent at least 4 years of relentless bullying with many false allegations, and many attempts to discredit me.

HR protected the managers and the bully. Me? I was told to ‘be kind’ as my bully was clearly unwell. When it escalated to allegations that should have been handled by the police, they fudged everything for two years, then gave him a golden handshake. I was then told I could not proceed with my grievance as ‘there was no point’.

Management will lie to cover their arses. HR in my case absolutely protected the company. I found that out to my cost.

I wonder if Fannny has too because their post really resonated with me.

I’m not sure what is going on with the OP’s situation. It may be an oversight. It may be the beginning of a nasty campaign. Either way it is rotten and it should be nipped in the bud.

I suppose all I am saying is that the likelihood is that HR will probably not kiss this better.

Sorry, my post was in response to tizer

@SheldonesqueTheBstard
You were bullied as it was 4 years. I’m just saying that one incident wouldn’t necessarily be bullying and there really is a marked difference between 4 years and one incident.

i have said it’s unpleasant. I don’t understand the accusation of projecting. What exactly? If you see HR you need to be aware of company policies and this did not take place at work. I’m assuming the away day wasn’t residential either. I really do understand that being left out is unkind but you need to understand what bullying is before you accuse people of it. How does op know it’s not a one off? How can anyone know? I think people should be kind to each other and be inclusive but it’s like parties at school, kids get left out. Not nice as a one off but repeated exclusion feels like bullying but parties are not on school premises. Or on the way home. It’s social so it’s different. That’s my view but your HR might feel differently OP.

I agree that one incident wouldn’t necessarily be bullying tizer

But it always starts with one instance.

I hope I’m not projecting either, but to feel excluded in the workplace after one incident makes me think that other things may have unsettled OP before this. I would have been inclined to think it a genuine oversight if it was a solitary incident.

I can’t recall the word bullying being used by the OP but she does use the word ‘toxic’. Those of us who did mention bullying are probably mindful that this kind of behaviour can start from what feels to be fairly innocuous beginnings. And it can thrive in a toxic culture.

But to make people feel excluded in the workplace as you say is far from being kind. And something a manager should have no part of.

@SheldonesqueTheBstard
Yes I do agree with you. The OP should log incidents and we don’t know what events or issues toxic describes. As they don’t see each other much, they might, effectively, be estranged as employees with friendships difficult to form. A bit more background would be helpful.

More background? Where to start…..Managers having little social evenings with their favourites who unsurprisingly get all the good roles in the team, a culture where if you stand up for yourself you are shot down, trouble recruiting and retaining staff, managers embedding a culture where they don’t reply to e mails, criticising staff for asking too many questions then coming down like a ton of bricks if you make a mistake. I could go on…

it used to be a good job. Not sure why it’s changed. Decent managers moved on and the current ones have no management skills.

yes I know…I need to move on.

@SheldonesqueTheBstard …what you said really resonated. Excluding people isn’t kind. The irony is my organisation is made up of staff from helping professions with strong values.

I am at my wits end at work and so close to just walking out. Have 3 kids I live alone with, dad is involved but not supportive with my situation, does what he needs to do but nothing more. I am so scared of being unemployed I have always worked. I am full time but on a poor salary. Get benefits top up. Passed probation period but have been micromanaged and quite frankly bullied for the last three months. Left a job I’d had most of my adult life for this one. Old job got stale and I wanted to progress there but it just didn’t happen partly thanks to Covid.
i am actively looking but my self esteem is on the floor feel so anxious and frightened. I have already been to the union who didn’t help much as they said I’d not got enough continuous service to call them out?! Has anyone been through same and how did you get over it? I have no partner self reliant not much savings so can’t really just go.

@Emis47 You need to create a new thread if you want advice

I HATE stuff like this. It has happened to me, and I have had to prevent it happening to others in jobs, going from people not being invited to the Xmas party to meals being booked in places that the team members being excluded can’t eat-think non halal or a pub. It is work place bullying-it’s not a social event it is a meal in work time, probably paid for partly by the workplace after a work conference not a social drink after work.
Some people are massive arseholes who don’t understand that work is work not a personal vendetta.
In a perfect world you would go to HR so your manger gets told. But if I was young would look for another job as they are not going to change.

OP see if you can find out whether the meal was paid for or otherwise expensed by the company.

Otherwise it might be a self-financed "work friends" get together based on convenience and proximity to the awayday venue?

Worked for a similarly toxic large organisation. Couldn't stand it in the end. I left and I'm much happier. Now working for a different, even larger organisation.
There are cliques but hybrid working and hot desking means I can avoid all that.