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Original poster

Advice please on employee leaving without Notice

32 replies

fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 20:54

I run a small business, a team of 4 people. I have one employee who was taken on 3 days a week (about 16 months). When we took her on we knew she had another self employed position. However, this position was very busy during our quiet time and very quiet during our busy time. Which was perfect.

Up until now it has worked, she hasn't worked her 3 days a week over the past 6/7 months as her other job has been busy and we have been quiet.

Now we come to our really busy time and I need her. She was booked in to work more than her contracted hours over the next 3 months. Holiday cover etc.

Our work is reliant on how many staff I have available to do the work, if there is space in the diary we take the work.

I have 3 months worth of work in the diary for the full team of 4 including her working more or less full time for the next 3 months. This was agreed with her.

She then tells me at the start of the week that a member of the family had passed away and that she was unable to work. Not an immediate member of the family.

I was a bit screwed as I had a member of staff on holiday and she was supposed to be covering. So I did my own and her bookings for the week.

I messaged her at the start of this week to see if she was OK and she said she would be back on Saturday and that she was away (presuming seeing to family issues after bereavement). She was supposed to also work Thursday/Friday this week.

So, I messaged her and said to her that I really needed her on Thursday/Friday and that if there was any way she could work then I really needed her as it is our very busy time and there are not enough hours in the day to do the work that is booked.

She replies with 'I quit' gives me some spiel about having to care for someone in her family and that she is heading for burn out. I was very sympathetic to this. (FWIW I don't believe this to be true - it's never been mentioned).

Then I notice through a friends facebook page that she is in fact on holiday for a week partying abroad.

She has totally and completely left me and my team in the utter shit.

This will cost me thousands and possibly some of our biggest clients because if we can't fulfil their needs they will go elsewhere.

Any advice please? Can I sue for loss of revenue having to turn away the work.

8 weeks notice period in her contract.

OP posts:
Sniffypete · 01/07/2022 20:56

So she's not actually done anything for you for the past 6 months?

Flopisfatteningbingforchristmas · 01/07/2022 21:01

She hasn’t worked for you or been paid by you for 6 months?

Raymama · 01/07/2022 21:02

How can you expect 8 weeks notice from someone who hadn't worked for you for 6 months?

Rainbowshit · 01/07/2022 21:02

Seems you want things all your way. She hasn't worked for you for 6/7 months it seems. Is she actually technically an employee?

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 01/07/2022 21:03

Paye or self employed?

MeMe3Spoons · 01/07/2022 21:04

A previous employer told me that if I didn't work my full notice (I requested to give 4 weeks rather than one calendar month) they were legally entitled to deduct the cost of covering my role for those days from my final salary payment. Not sure if that's true or not but is using an agency temp a possibility? Might solve the immediate problem and if you could claim something back from this person then you'd have a paper trail of the actual financial cost to your business.

Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:05

Sorry, yes she has. But it has been reduced. She is contracted for 3 days a week. But because she wanted the time to do the other work she has worked on reduced hours.

She has worked on average 50% of her contracted hours for the past 6 months with the agreement that she would then work more over the Summer. She had agreed to the hours/days that were arranged over the next 3 months.

OP posts:
Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:06

She is PAYE.

OP posts:
Johnnysgirl · 01/07/2022 21:07

Sniffypete · 01/07/2022 20:56

So she's not actually done anything for you for the past 6 months?

Surely op means she hasn't done her full hours, not that she hasn't worked at all?

ineedafairygodmother · 01/07/2022 21:10

Contact ACAS, they are really helpful. However I'm sure that if an employee leaves without notice, then you can deduct the notice period salary from there final salary (possibly only if you have to employ someone else to cover the work)

user143677433 · 01/07/2022 21:13

Yes, technically you can sue her for loss of earnings due to breach of contract, but it would be very, very difficult to win. Also, that she has already put in writing the effect of bereavement, caring responsibilities and burnout/stress would all make it even harder for you.

Please do bear in mind though that what someone shares on social media may not be the full picture. She can be helping someone cope with bereavement and be abroad at the same time.

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 01/07/2022 21:15

Well you could try and claim. But I don’t see you can force her to actually physically work the notice. But given you think you will lose a big client plus you will get known locally as being “that employer” and potentially reduce the available pool
of new employees- is it worth all the stress?
Either hire a new person or use agency staff. The latter you could use just as you need on short term temp contracts.

Im NOT a legal bod. But given the length of notice you want versus the weekly hours worked - is it possible that a judge may see that as unfavourable conditions? And then you have incurred even more costs….???? Plus an employee so disengaged with the company may actually be more of a liability to have around for their notice period.

ineedafairygodmother · 01/07/2022 21:15

Here's the link to ACAS with info on an employee leaving without working their notice

www.acas.org.uk/final-pay-when-someone-leaves-a-job/if-someone-leaves-without-working-their-notice

Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:16

The biggest problem I have is that it takes about 4 months to be fully trained and qualified to do the job. I trained and qualified her.

I can't use agency staff. It's niche and no one locally is qualified.

OP posts:
user143677433 · 01/07/2022 21:18

fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:16

The biggest problem I have is that it takes about 4 months to be fully trained and qualified to do the job. I trained and qualified her.

I can't use agency staff. It's niche and no one locally is qualified.

I suggest the thing to do in future is to put a penalty in the contract that if someone leaves without working notice they have to pay back £x for training.

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 01/07/2022 21:22

Well the. You have to decide if you want the extra hassle of taking her to court, (and it could go either way) on top of hiring someone new, and knuckling down and trying to get the work done.

Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:23

This is the clause in the contract.

If you leave without giving the proper period of notice or leave during your notice period without permission:
• you will not be paid for any unworked period of notice; and
• the Company shall also be entitled to make a further deduction as follows:

a. The deduction will not exceed the actual loss suffered by the company as a result of your leaving without notice (for example, the cost of recruiting a replacement at short notice)
b. The deduction will not exceed a day’s pay for each day not worked during the notice period.
This deduction may be made from any final payment of salary which the Company may be due to make to you.
The amount to be deducted is a genuine attempt by the Company to assess its loss as a result of your leaving without notice.
It is not intended to act as a penalty upon termination.

I have not paid her for last month. Pay day was yesterday. Her payslip has gone out as it is sent by the accountant. It was sent on Wednesday morning. But I pay the wages on the last day of the month.

She has expensive equipment of mine which I will require back. She is not communicating at all.

I don't plan on not paying her for last month. But I do wish to hold onto her wages until at least the equipment is returned.

If the pay slip has gone out has that scuppered me claiming anything from her final pay.

I know I need to get proper legal advice and I will, but I can't on a Friday evening. MN is the next best thing.

OP posts:
Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:24

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 01/07/2022 21:22

Well the. You have to decide if you want the extra hassle of taking her to court, (and it could go either way) on top of hiring someone new, and knuckling down and trying to get the work done.

There is more work booked in than I can knuckle down and do. There is not enough hours in the day.

I would have to cancel it and probably lose the clients.

OP posts:
Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 01/07/2022 21:39

So then you are left with -

  1. hire someone and move on from this.
  2. take her to court maybe win, maybe lose. Plus does she even have the ability to pay whatever is awarded? This isn’t immediate - legal recourse takes along time. You are still an employee short and still unable to do the work and still may lose big clients. Also you risk getting known locally as an employer to avoid.
  3. ask her to work the notice - but a) do you want her back b) do you want someone there who doesn’t want to be there. If she does work the notice and does it badly - presumptuous would let her go anyway….?

i can’t see any other option as we don’t have forced slavery as an option (thank god).

Crazycatlady83 · 01/07/2022 21:41

The contract reads to me that you will deduct money from her final salary if she doesn't work her notice but the deduction will not exceed a days salary.

So you will be entitled to either 1.5 day (because this is what she has been working) or 3 days pay for 8 weeks.

If accepted by the court, you also have to consider if it's worth pursuing. Does she have this amount to pay you if you are successful?

This seems a slightly unusual term - do you often get people quitting at short notice

Bubblesandsqueak1 · 01/07/2022 21:47

Ok yes take her to court and you can also get the payslip changed as you can get them amended send her a written notice to return equipment within 7 days of she does not return add this to the court claim, dont let her get away with it also screen shot everything about her being away partying also the loss of contracts would be on her too, you have a very good case against her she would also have ro prove the death to the court

IDreamOfTheMoors · 01/07/2022 21:48

fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:23

This is the clause in the contract.

If you leave without giving the proper period of notice or leave during your notice period without permission:
• you will not be paid for any unworked period of notice; and
• the Company shall also be entitled to make a further deduction as follows:

a. The deduction will not exceed the actual loss suffered by the company as a result of your leaving without notice (for example, the cost of recruiting a replacement at short notice)
b. The deduction will not exceed a day’s pay for each day not worked during the notice period.
This deduction may be made from any final payment of salary which the Company may be due to make to you.
The amount to be deducted is a genuine attempt by the Company to assess its loss as a result of your leaving without notice.
It is not intended to act as a penalty upon termination.

I have not paid her for last month. Pay day was yesterday. Her payslip has gone out as it is sent by the accountant. It was sent on Wednesday morning. But I pay the wages on the last day of the month.

She has expensive equipment of mine which I will require back. She is not communicating at all.

I don't plan on not paying her for last month. But I do wish to hold onto her wages until at least the equipment is returned.

If the pay slip has gone out has that scuppered me claiming anything from her final pay.

I know I need to get proper legal advice and I will, but I can't on a Friday evening. MN is the next best thing.

Could you stop payment on the check or is it too late? Can you call your bank to possibly reverse the charges?
My bank (granted, in the U.S.) always does everything possible to stand behind me.
Might be worth a call to them just in case.

Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:48

Crazycatlady83 · 01/07/2022 21:41

The contract reads to me that you will deduct money from her final salary if she doesn't work her notice but the deduction will not exceed a days salary.

So you will be entitled to either 1.5 day (because this is what she has been working) or 3 days pay for 8 weeks.

If accepted by the court, you also have to consider if it's worth pursuing. Does she have this amount to pay you if you are successful?

This seems a slightly unusual term - do you often get people quitting at short notice

It's a standard contract I think from ACAS.

I've never had anyone quit on me without notice.

You're right, it's not worth pursuing.

However, I shall be keeping her this months wages until she returns my expensive equipment - and no, this will not cause her hardship.

OP posts:
Original poster
fucketyfuckwit · 01/07/2022 21:50

"Could you stop payment on the check or is it too late? Can you call your bank to possibly reverse the charges?
My bank (granted, in the U.S.) always does everything possible to stand behind me.
Might be worth a call to them just in case."

I've not paid it yet. My accountant runs the payroll and then I pay it from the business account. The payslips go out when the payroll is done, which is sometimes a day or 2 before the last day of the month. I then transfer the money on the last working day.

OP posts:
Aprilx · 02/07/2022 08:14

You cannot withhold money she has earned. If you wish to recoup any costs for agency staff (which you say you won’t be able to hire anyway) then you would need to do this via the court, not via a deduction of wages she has already earned. That is illegal and your contract does not make something legal.

In practice employers do not generally pursue employees for this breach in contract as the effort involved in doing so is more trouble than it is worth. You need to move on and maybe plan work better in future. An expectation that an “employee” that you have barely employed for six months seems pretty hopeful anyway and seems to lack contingency.