Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

Can PT ever really work in law?

33 replies

nappiesandcontracts · 22/05/2022 16:50

Currently doing 4 days a week and it's just not working. Find myself checking emails on my NWD and logging on to do 3-4h in the evening after the kids are in bed and catching up at the weekend. My firm are super supportive of flexible working but at the same time, it's basically impossible to scale back my job by 20% and when we've got a completion on I can't just be unavailable for a day. Considering going FT but would miss the time with the kids, but at the same time trying to do PT means I'm constantly knackered and to be honest not always the most "present" mum on my NWD when I'm bribing them with TV and snacks while answering emails etc. Wondering if there's another PT working pattern I should consider or if that's just shuffling deckchairs. Would love to hear thoughts/advice from anyone who's in or who has been in this position.

OP posts:
Threetulips · 22/05/2022 16:51

We’ll ask about flexible working hours, you are already working 5 days a week if not more.

MinnieMountain · 23/05/2022 06:28

So you’re a conveyancing solicitor?
In my experience, not if you have your own files. I work PT in a support role for a licensed conveyancers.

Original poster
nappiesandcontracts · 23/05/2022 07:04

Sorry yes, I'm a solicitor (corporate). Just re-read my OP and can see I didn't actually say what my role was!

OP posts:
MangoMaddie · 23/05/2022 07:18

IME in city law you’re available all the time, so you can never guarantee a day off. There are things that can help though.

Do you have a good PA who monitors your emails? Could she forward everything that comes in to an appropriate person working on the relevant matter, and call you if there’s something that really needs you. Would that be enough to mean you didn’t need to keep checking email? Only works with a very reliable PA though.

Could you do an official 4.5 days with the .5 from home? That’s basically what you’re doing now, may as well get paid for it.

Are you able to take a day in lieu if you have a completion on your day off?

Would taking a different day of the week help? Would clients feel happier with you taking Monday off, as you’d be back by Tuesday, rather than Friday and not in until Monday? (Or whatever.)

MinnieMountain · 23/05/2022 07:23

Ah, sorry I assumed when you said completions that it was property.

I’ve got a friend who works 4 days a week in wills and probate. It seems that any role where things can’t wait a day, you’d struggle.

Grumpybutfunny · 23/05/2022 07:34

Could you do 5 days but finish early enough to do the school run on some of the days?

Original poster
nappiesandcontracts · 23/05/2022 07:37

Thanks @MangoMaddie. PA / junior support isn't great (recruitment issues) which is part of the problem. The only people who could keep an eye on matters for me are my similarly overworked colleagues and I really don't want to ask them to do that, which is how I end up glued to my phone on my NWD.

I like the idea of 4.5 days - could have a regular afternoon off, then if I have to work the full day one week, perhaps take the whole day off the week after. It'd mean I'd have to pay for childcare each week on that day whether I use it or not but would be nice to have the extra time with DC. Think I might run this past my boss, see if it'd be a possibility.

OP posts:
Original poster
nappiesandcontracts · 23/05/2022 07:41

@Grumpybutfunny I did think about that but I think I'd just end up logging back on in the evenings anyway so would be a pay cut for flexibility rather than a reduction in hours.

@MinnieMountain no worries at all, my OP wasn't clear. I think you're right - tough to do 4 days given the nature of the work/client expectations

OP posts:
CHiSOCG · 23/05/2022 07:45

Have you considered a move in-house? Demand for Commercial lawyers is so high that Companies will consider Corporate lawyers now. I just feel with Corporate PT doesn’t work (like you said because of completions). Or could you move into restructuring? Rather than the pure deal-making side?

MangoMaddie · 23/05/2022 07:53

There’s always PSL-ing if you like being in a law firm but want more reasonable hours. It is a completely different career path, though, and much less buzz.

Original poster
nappiesandcontracts · 23/05/2022 07:59

I'd say I'm more of an all rounder than a very technical lawyer so don't think I'd be a particularly good PSL! Although the hours would certainly appeal.

In house...to be honest not really considered it previously as I have zero experience of commercial contracts but perhaps worth a look.

OP posts:
SeasonFinale · 23/05/2022 08:02

Set you email signature to state the days you work and that you will not be monitoring emails on the day that you don't. That helps to manage expectations of clients and other side. There may be times when a completion needs to be handed over and the partner you work for should set up arrangements for that to happen or for you to take TOIL.

It is workable and you are indeed making a rod for your own back by not switching off devices on the day off.

However the nature of the job is that it isn't 9 to 5 on the days you do work so there will always be an element of evening of weekend work. However it is for you to police the level you do on the day off. If it isn't working then yes at least be paid the additional 20%.

Dinoteeth · 23/05/2022 08:02

How old are your kids?
Once they are in school doing 5 short days might work better.

1Wanda1 · 23/05/2022 08:03

I'm a partner in a City firm. I do 4 days a week and almost always have to do a bit of work on my NWD and often in the evenings as well. I don't see this as any different to when I was 5 days a week and also had to work in the evenings and at weekends quite often. It's the nature of the job. If anything I think being PT might make you more likely to work "out of hours" as you always have that worry that people might think you're not committed, or clients might call someone else if you don't respond on your NWD.

For me it's worth having the flexibility.

GU24Mum · 23/05/2022 08:05

Honestly - without moving out of mainstream transactional work, not really. I did 4 days a week years ago but had moved client teams and it only worked as two of us who were friends and both worked 4 days pretty much did it between us. Was a bit career limiting though which is always the rub. I opted out and did various other things in law for a while and am now 5 days again and exhausted and having a similar conversation with my family about options.

Sadly, if you want to stay in your current role, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. The option I might try going for is sticking to 5 days but asking for far more time off as my flexible option. I'm sure it's the same with you in that it's virtually impossible to get someone else to look after your matters a day a week but you can hand them over for longer periods of time.

MajorCarolDanvers · 23/05/2022 08:11

I know loads of pt solicitors.

You need to toughen up and be more disciplined. That means not working or checking emails on your non working day.

Your out of office needs to convey your working days with a message to say you will respond on your return.

It's not about scaling your work back but working differently. Things might take a bit longer. Manage expectations. Clients and your own.

You say your employer is supportive so that means you working in your non working day is on you. So stop it.

Brightonbelly · 23/05/2022 08:16

Not law but have similar issues. Dc are older now but when they were smaller I found it really tough. If you can afford the extra childcare 4.5 days is a really good compromise and worked for me. I was flexible about when I took off and often banked a half day for a full day off instead

Oblomov22 · 23/05/2022 08:17

I appreciate law is like this alot, but does your firm have a bad reputation for work life balance?
Have you ever spoken to your manager about this? Just playing devils advocate but what would happen if you didn't do any work in the evenings or didn't do any work on your day off? Would you be criticised? What have your recent appraisals said?

MangoMaddie · 23/05/2022 08:45

clients might call someone else if you don't respond on your NWD

I think this is key, unfortunately. It’s the nature of the job and the fact that clients are paying such eye-watering sums and so quite reasonably have very high expectations.

I’m no longer in private practice. DH is a partner in a city firm and is available literally all the time- evenings, weekends, holidays etc. In that climate, it’s not really possible to protect a NWD fully and things like not checking email (or having it checked) just don’t work. So I think you need to choose between a) the current setup (with tweaks)- some work on your NWD, throw money at childcare to make it work; or b) a different sort of role- in-house, psl, or smaller firm with less high octane work and lower expectations. Pros and cons to both.

CharlotteSt · 23/05/2022 08:52

We have a conveyancing lawyer who works three days a week and Fridays is a NWD which is rubbish for many of her completions. It might work better if her secretary didn't work from home on her NWDs and is pretty unaccessible (even though we have "the technology"). From the point of view of her colleagues it's not great.

Maybe work mornings only?

mynameiscalypso · 23/05/2022 09:04

1Wanda1 · 23/05/2022 08:03

I'm a partner in a City firm. I do 4 days a week and almost always have to do a bit of work on my NWD and often in the evenings as well. I don't see this as any different to when I was 5 days a week and also had to work in the evenings and at weekends quite often. It's the nature of the job. If anything I think being PT might make you more likely to work "out of hours" as you always have that worry that people might think you're not committed, or clients might call someone else if you don't respond on your NWD.

For me it's worth having the flexibility.

Now a lawyer but worked 4 days in a similar environment and this was my experience too (I now work in the third sector and work more than ever on my NWD). I am fairly non-negotiable in that, if I have to join a call, my DS will be with me and clients tended to accept that. I tend to be of the view that flexibility works both ways so if I want to be able to attend medical appointments or have to WFH with a sick child without taking leave or whatever, then I need to show some flexibility over my NWD (and weekends/evenings).

User4748294496 · 23/05/2022 09:20

I think the fact that you’re in corporate is the key here. I’m transactional (banking) and it seems to be more manageable than corporate for having to work on my NWD but occasionally it’s just necessary. What is your NWD? I have done either Monday or Wednesday and I have found Wednesday to be more manageable - when it was Mondays I just felt that I was already on the back foot at the start of the week. Fridays are an absolute no go (although a woman in my team seems to have wangled it 😒)

yellowsuninthesky · 25/05/2022 16:38

nappiesandcontracts · 23/05/2022 07:59

I'd say I'm more of an all rounder than a very technical lawyer so don't think I'd be a particularly good PSL! Although the hours would certainly appeal.

In house...to be honest not really considered it previously as I have zero experience of commercial contracts but perhaps worth a look.

You don't necessarily need to be a technical lawyer to be a good PSL - you just need to know where to find the law! Are you anywhere near London? Look at this job if so (it's largely remote but also says you need to be able to commute to the London office every 2 or 3 weeks minimum): lewissilkin.allhires.com/PositionDetail.aspx?id=446&a=&n=&returl=%2f

Seriously, think about it. Some PSL jobs are very technical, but others can be made what you make them and you can play to your strengths. And it's not easy to recruit, so firms are having to be flexible about their requirements.

yellowsuninthesky · 25/05/2022 16:43

PS if you search on LinkedIn for corporate PSL roles there are quite a few.

Original poster
nappiesandcontracts · 26/05/2022 07:55

Thanks for your thoughts @yellowsuninthesky - I'll look into it a little more as I'd very much counted myself out of that kind of role before

OP posts: