How would this behaviour go down in your workplace?

[Iwanttenofthose]

Just interested in some other perspectives on what would be an acceptable way to handle this in your workplace.

I'm a project manager, x is in a junior admin position. X used to hold a slightly more senior role (not management) but threatened redundancy, took the admin role rather than leave.

Every time I communicate a project decision to x (that has been ratified by the project stakeholders, steering group etc) and ask them to help with the resulting action, for example by sending out a calendar invite, they challenge the strategy behind it and end up pulling loads of different people into the conversation to try to support their case against whatever approach we're taking with the project. The only reason I tell them anything about the project is because I need them to do the occasional task like book an event or send out an email. They'll then refuse to do the work until I've had multiple conversations with them, and all the other people they've pulled into the situation who aren't even part of the project, to clarify that the decision has already been assessed by people with the relevant expertise, signed off, and the thing I've asked them to do now just needs to happen.

For context, I work in an organisation where everyone's in the trade union and the organisation is extremely averse to the risk of upsetting anyone. If I did say anything more assertive than what I've put above, x would probably go to the union saying something about their wellbeing being compromised then I'd be the one having to justify my actions to HR etc.

How would this play out in your workplace?

God what a horrible situation. That is one person who should've left rather than stayed in a junior role.

I hope everything you tell them to do is in writing and their response is too?

You would be expected to manage your staff member. X can go to the union but if you've followed policies correctly, that's fine. I actually find union involvement for unreasonable staff helpful - the union sets them straight.

I'm not their line manager

At my work we would exit that person

But that's helpful thanks (didn't mean to sound abrupt), I hadn't thought of the union as helpful from the other perspective of clarifying what's acceptable and what isn't

I agree they should have left, it feels like they're really unhappy and trying to insert themselves into these situations is giving them some sense of power.

Yes I do most things by instant message so it's all saved. Next time they're really obstructive I'm tempted to just forward the whole lot over to their line manager and ask them to deal with it.

Or just send the request for work to their line manager asking for "someone on their team" to pick it up.

Got I hate people like this.
you need to document everything with them in email, then get them on an improvement plan for not doing their job. It's annoying as in a company like yours it's the long game.
What is your manager like? Likely to back you up or not?
If you tell X in email to stop challenging decisions already agreed and do x,y,z what would happen? I can bet every person who is being dragged into a decision about this is being driven mad too.

when they start with their discussions can you shut it down with email (to all included) saying something like "thank you for your concern/query, this has been ratified, signed in blood by the relevant people, no further discussion is needed. Please arrange meeting Z on A,B,C date". If they don't then you have evidence of refusal to do their actual role. And you could say they were constantly being disruptive.

I would be tempted ( not sure if it would work) to almost pre-empt the issue and when asking x to book the meeting day it’s already been agreed at Y level.

Manage your staff. Refuse to enter a discussion justifying what needs to be done. Read up on disciplinary action and policies so you know what needs to be in place for a disciplinary to stick, and follow it by the book.

I'd just be totally direct with the individual.

'I understand and can see that you clearly have a lot of experience to offer. I suggest that you and I have a chat with your line manger to explore ways in which you can contribute formally going forward. that said, your role at the moment is to do x. It is not to debate the previously agreed and ratified strategy for the programme, of which you are not currently an executive member. Please schedule the meeting as requested, by 5 pm today and let me know when you've done it.

Perhaps you can also put something in the diary for you, me and line manager to discuss your role and wider contribution too? Fab, thanks '

Yes your instincts to involve the Line Manager are correct.

I'd start ccing LM into everything. If person wishes to discuss reasons for anything ask them to schedule a meeting and forward it to their LM. Basically they are incapable of doing their job if they can't do what is asked without taking hours of your time. You won't be the only one with the problem, so give the LM the ammunition to resolve it.

Is X right? Just because their opinion isn't needed it doesn't mean they shouldn't be valued. If they are an asset to the company they shouldn't be managed out of a junior role, they should be appreciated.

Also stop IM. Do everything by email. Make it as formal as possible.

@girlmom21 I'm a PM myself. It may sound tough, but to a large degree it doesn't matter if X is right. If the senior stakeholders have agreed something then that's what happens .
There are many ways of doing things and sometimes as a PM the priority is to keep the project moving as over procrastination achieves nothing.

My suggestion comes from a place that recognises how hard it must be to be downgraded, that the person may well be of use to you, and that as a good manager you and the company should be helping them to get a meaningful role. That said you still need to get the job done within an agreed structure and governance model that is respected by everyone -even this person.

Their line manager needs to sort it.

Get in touch with the line manager, explain what's been happening, tell them you would usually ask x but you and other stakeholders haven't got time to wait while x first tries to get involved in things that are not their concern. So in future you would prefer to pass tasks to line manager to delegate to someone on their team.

Public sector I’m guessing. I get the culture but I don’t think you need to be too cautious about sending a message saying ‘thanks, it’s been agreed by the relevant stakeholders and we’re on a deadline - please could you confirm that this will be done by x day?’ There’s nothing wrong with that, and HR won’t be able to tell you that there is. We can go too far with this fear of upsetting people.

You need to get their line manager involved

I would just have an informal chat with their line manager. Mention that work is being delayed due to X questioning decisions that have already been signed off. Bring a couple of specific examples of how this has affected the project work.

It is up to X's manager to manage them, not you. But if you don't tell them the issue, they won't do anything, so you need to raise it. Hopefully a chat with X from their manager will clarify the process & their responsibilities and improve things for you too.

@rookiemere I disagree. If X has a valuable contribution it should be listened to. It's easy to say it doesn't matter but it could make a huge difference in the long run.

Tbh sometimes x does make valid points. However the project team has a panel of subject matter experts from all different subject areas and decisions are discussed and agreed very collaboratively. So usually x's ideas are something that might have been suggested, discussed and rejected at a previous stage so we just end up repeating those discussions.

Ordinarily I'd invite someone like x with passion and good ideas to participate in discussions at an earlier stage BUT it's their behaviour that makes me not want to do that. They're stubborn and defensive, and when presented with ideas or evidence that challenge their views they stick to their guns without considering alternatives, which is why they can't be part of those discussions. I also don't think their LM would appreciate them being taken away from their other duties when we already have strategic input from someone else on their team.

Thanks for all the replies! Lots of great advice and perspectives here.

Definitely going to do this, thanks

When you’re replying to them saying, it’s already been agreed at x level… I’d copy in their line manager.

also if they want to take an interest in the project and read more about it are there minutes or documents you can refer them to? If it’s appropriate?

Yeah that's the thing, I have a lot of empathy for x and I don't want my perception of their ideas to be skewed by the way they're behaving in what must be a really challenging situation for them. I was promoted around the time they were threatened with redundancy so I would completely understand if there's some resentment towards me (or at least my position, if not me personally) lurking in the background of all this.

I am going to use the approach you've suggested but I am going to have this conversation with the lm first because they may have other ideas about how they want to manage it, also as I've referenced in a different reply I find x's behaviour quite aggressive in how they put their views across and that would need to change if they're going to be contributing those ideas in a more constructive way as we have a very collaborative culture.