School workers; how are your dependants medical appointments viewed?

[Needanewadventure2021]

So I work in a school and was completely honest at interview stage and during the recruitment process about my child's needs. He has basically been referred to the Multi agency pathway for suspected ADHD/ASD assessment. Appointments haven't started yet but I know when they do I will have to be present and to be honest I wouldn't want anyone else to attend/support my child at these appointments but me anyway.

Today I needed to request an unrelated leave of absence for my child for something at their school that I really must attend given him going away with school and them understanding his additional needs. The request has been allowed but ive been told it will be unpaid.

This shocked my colleagues as their leave requests get authorised and paid.

It's now got me worrying about his medical appointments which are important that I attend. I am under no illusions that the process will be quick. I'm expecting a long process however they are essential in getting him the support he needs.

I suppose what I am asking is are dependent appointments not usually paid? My colleagues don't have kids and theirs are always paid. I am a one parent family so everything falls on me. I was never informed leave would be without pay so it has got me worrying about his medical appointments as I can barely afford costs of living at the moment on a full months wage. My child is primary age and doesn't communicate well so im his voice.

Thanks

This ^

I am staggered you have been granted the time off for this.
There are very few things you can take time off for when you work in a school, and this certainly isn't one of them.

I suspect the fact you have been audacious enough to ask for time off for this has meant you're likely to lose goodwill and a little bit of informal flexibility that many heads try to work with if they can. When people start to take the mick though, that flexibility gets withdrawn.

As an aside, I think you might be overestimating the amount of time you are going to need for an autism assessment. In my authority they are still doing video conferencing for a lot of appointments, and you didn't get a long series of appointments even prior to video conferencing.

My experience of the process is different. Appointments were very inflexible. I thoroughly regret removing him from the process when he was younger as when he started school things went downhill fast. CAMHS were involved as an emergency in lockdown then he was referred back to school by due to wait times. Things have continued to deteriorate which is why he has been re referred as an urgent and school have involved OT.

I'm actually really upset about the comment about losing goodwill and flexibility in future. I've never demanded or expected time off. This is my first request. When I see my colleagues requesting time off for interviews and to come in late due to attending a music event the night before and it being granted, I can't see how asking to be present at something to do with my child as less important. I even have an informal conversation with my LM to see how requests would be considered before i make one as it does worry me. This is my first one albeit a silly one I realise but his medical appointments can't be helped. I cant be the only person to work in a school and have child with suspected additional needs.

Appointments are no longer phone or video call based now either. The centre is a 50 minute drive from home and face to face going forward

My friend works in a primary school she has had a lot of time off for appointments when her son was going through asd adhd tests she has been given a written warning and told no more time off, I work at a high school and have recently had to have a few hours off on 2 separate days when ds needed to go to fracture clinic after breaking his arm, im not sure if this will be paid or not, my husband is disabled and attends hospital an hours drive away I dont ask for time off for every appointment he has because I don't think it's fair to pupils and other members of staff. I know not every request for time off is allowed and people including single parents have been asked to re arrange appointments to after school/holidays or if someone else could take the child. I've worked in a number of schools and to be honest if you need a lot of time off for dependents I'm not sure if it's the ideal job.

What is your role in the school?

I'm office staff.

I'm anticipating several appointments. Until we start I cant be sure how frequent they will be. But what is any parent meant to do in this situation then? My last job introduced new contracts where leave was unpaid so i suspect its becoming the norm. Will no employer tolerate these appointments which you have to go to or your child is left to struggle. Mine wishes he was dead so it's serious

It's shit but most places are unpaid for dependents now.

If people routinely get time off for the things you've said up thread, then I can't see how you asking this would cause resentment though. It sounds like you spoke to your LM first.

I'd ask the school if they could put the meeting at the end or start of a day to allow more parents to attend.

I am in a similar job on a school and i get unpaid leave for attending appointments for my child.

If your child has a disability you can take the unpaid parental leave everyone is entitled to request in single days - it doesnt have to be in week blocks.

My school has been nothing but supportive of me as an employee with a disabled child in terms of letting me attend appointments

I'm sorry OP, it sounds like you're having a tough time.

I can completely see why you'd want/need the time for your DS but equally, it's also very important that your employer sees you as reliable.

I think assuming any ad hoc leave will be unpaid is a good bet. You mention others leaving early etc, I'd put this straight out of your head - maybe they make the hours back up, maybe they work in the holidays, maybe the appt is for them rather than a dependent.

Maybe it's worth a chat with your HT on flexibility and what options may be available to you including making up your hours etc.

Good luck!

I think it’s completely fair that your colleagues (and yourself) get paid for their own medical appointments. Dependent medical appointments are a different matter and can’t be compared.

I would also be wary about comparing your terms and conditions regarding time off and paid/unpaid with other members of staff. I’m a teacher and a lot of support staff were unimpressed when they discovered that there were different terms and conditions to our contracts regarding dependent days. As you’re office staff, it’s highly unlikely that your contract is the same as teaching staff

It was actually direct colleagues that told me they were shocked. Its after their comments that made me ask the question. I wish I'd never asked now though. I really dont expect to be on the same terms as other staff. Im not stupid. It was the comments of my colleagues about it being unfair they are paid and I wouldn't be that got me wondering about his future appointments.

I am more upset about possibly being seen as unreliable because my child has additional needs under investigation. I feel I'm damned if I do damned if I don't. I also find it offensive being seen as unreliable under these circumstances as I am trying to honour my responsibilities to both my child and my employer hence why I engage with my LM first to get their advice on how to proceed. I'm not requesting time off for holidays or random days off.
If I leave appointments my son deteriorates and suffers,I if I attend these appointments I am potentially seem to be unreliable In my role.

When CAMHS became involved again in 2020 I was given a good telling off about how I should never have removed him from the pathway when he was 3. Then after 2020 i didn't hear from them again until mid 2021 when they discharged him on the basis school need to deal with him as he hasn't been hospitalised due to harm. Now his back with CAMHS due to escalating behaviours.

I've lay in bed tonight crying as I dont know what to do anymore. I feel I can't do any right. I dont do anything for myself. I do everything I can to try and support my child as best I can. And when I'm not being a Mum I'm giving my best at work. I have so much worry about how to please everyone but I cant do it all

At no point in my comment did I suggest you were stupid. I also couldn’t have known that you had spoken to your direct and comparable colleagues (particularly given how many different roles there are in schools).

I have to be honest, I think that you may be overthinking how your son’s medical appointments are going to be viewed by your work. Your employers knew you had a child (and that they would have appointments) when they hired you. Presumably this means that they were okay with you needing time to go to the appointments with him. I know it probably feels as though you are letting them down but you’re not. As you work in a school, I would hazard a guess that your employers care about the welfare of children and want the best for your son too. I appreciate that you feel overwhelmed (not surprising as you have so much going on!) but please be kind to yourself. You are doing the best you can for your son and work. That’s what matters.

In the school where I work it would be paid if it's the odd one but technically hospital appointments for staff are paid as they are not really moveable. GP and dentist are unpaid as you can usually make those outside school hours. Staff can have up to 3 days paid childcare days in a rolling 12 month period.

I only had 3 appointments over the course of a year when my Ds was diagnosed with asd, it’s a long pathway as it’s a long time to get an appointment and then a long wait between appointments

I can't imagine there are many places that would pay you to have time off for this tbh.

@STARCATCHER22 my apologies. I didn't mean to imply you had called me stupid. I know you didn't. I just meant I fully understand colleagues would be on different terms depending on their role in the school.

Sorry about yesterday. It was a very bad day and everything became overwhelming. I have so much going on right now and it's all making me worry alot. I feel drained.

I'm sorry if I came across like I expected to be paid. It wasn't the case. I've never worked in a school and I have only had one job before this one since becoming a Mother where all absences for myself and my child were fully paid (I know extremely lucky). However that changed when new contracts came into force in January so I completely understand that not being paid is likely the norm. Now I know they won't be paid absences it's fine. I will just plan for the loss.

I admit I am sensitive, especially when feeling like I do so when people were saying how a school job wasn't for me if I needed time off for my child's appointments, and how your shocked I've asked for time off for a parent meeting, and how I could be viewed as unreliable in my role for asking for this time off, it did upset me. No one was to know how bad I was feeling but I suppose the honesty made me feel worse. I take being a Mom and performing well in my job role very seriously. Of course my duties as a mother are my priority but i would never take the mick with my employer as I want to be considered a valued member of staff. I do find it hard to juggle the responsibilities of two parents just by myself and because everything is hitting me at once at the moment I probably took comments on here to heart.

But I do want to say again I never expected to be paid. I was only asking what is the norm.

I did speak to my LM today about my concerns. I've decided to no longer attend the meeting as DS medical appointments will take priority. My LM was lovely and reassuring. They were quite shocked I had decided against attending the residential meeting as we hold them at our school and its something they view as important for a parent to attend. They told me to stop worrying as they accept they employ staff who have children and I've always been forthcoming about my son's needs. So that was reassuring to know. I couldn't care less about the loss of pay really. It's not ideal but it is what it is. It was more a case of I was panicking how I'd start to be viewed.
My employer is extremely supportive of inclusion so I hope when the time comes their understanding remains.

Thank you for all your comments :-)

I would certainly go if your school have given time. Asking for time off and it being approved does not make you unreliable!

The council I work for allow up to 5 days paid leave but can accept it in hours. After that it’s unpaid. I know a couple of colleagues who have no support have now got to take any leave unpaid now as they’ve taken all their paid time.

OK You need to be practical. Phone in sick. Loads of people will now be along to tell you how terrible that is and how your boss will find out etc etc. However, in reality, how likely is it that anyone in a school has time to go Miss Marple and stalk you to find out about your one off illness.

@cansu I have a few friends who work in schools that have done this in the past. I get it, children get sick and we cant always afford to lose pay. I know i really cant! I think for myself though, honestly really is the best policy.

Luckily my DS isn't a 'sicky child' so I don't worry about those absences as they are few and far between. As his will be ongoing medical appointments for something I desperately need to get sorted I would rather be honest. Im worrying over something that hasnt happened yet. Im anticipating alot of appointments but ive now been told it can really depend on the path they take. Sometimes there are more sometimes there are less. But where we are it is all back to face to face again. So I will just have to see when they start coming.

Work have good feedback about me and my work, I go above and beyond and always offer to help by working over. I feel better now about it anyway since speaking to my LM. There have been a few triggering words for me in this thread that spiralled my worries. Now I've cleared it up it makes me feel abit more relaxed about things.

I deal with HR issues for a number of schools. Each school is different depending on what the HT/Govs decide to put in their absence policy. Some allow 1 paid day per term, others nothing.
Get your policy out, but be warned that schools do not like to be challenged in any way.

Medical/other appointments for myself as well as my dependents are always unpaid. The exception to the rule is maternity appointments and occ health.

I think you're over thinking it all. You will need to take time for the appointments, and perhaps you can offer to make the time up/do some tasks on the laptop in the evening?

It's tough if you're the only one/single parent. Do you have grandparents who can go to some of his appointments?

Regards the meeting about the residential - I think if your DS has additional needs then you would need a 1-1 meeting anyway to make sure you get things in place for him. I don't know you would get that reassurance from a general parent meeting.

Not being paid is not particular to you - they have brought this in at my school since we became part of a trust. It was queried by a staff member with a disabled child as it's more likely to affect them. Although it's tough, it's not their problem to sort out - they want you in for the hours they pay you for.