Another wfh one !

[StayAtHomeJo]

I know I’m being slightly unreasonable but….

I’ve wfh for over 2 years solid with no issues. My role can 100% be done remotely and other similar roles in the Org are continuing remotely (in line with Org’s new policy going forward).
However, my LM now wants me onsite for meetings which have previously been done remotely.
My reasons for wanting to continue remotely are changed caring responsibility (adult disabled dependent), petrol costs, ongoing Covid on shop floor (I get the sickness reports), the fact there’s no genuine business need, the Org as a whole had embraced new ways of working, and the that I know my LM will be aiming to get me back onsite full time (issues in the past which affected my mental health).

Should I push back in this request ?

I disagree that you can’t provide care of a disabled adult and wfh at the same time - this is exactly what was expected, and achieved, over the lockdowns.

And when I say provide care, mine is actually very independent, he just does like being left alone in the house for hours at a time.

Yes, it’s inevitably women (being held back) in these roles and always has been, but I’m not sure what the alternative is, not work ?

It is a huge concern that people now think it is acceptable that women will wfh and take in caring responsibilities. You can’t leave a meeting half way though to see to a crying baby or an adult who needs help.

lockdown was exceptional circumstances. Meetings were frequently disrupted but that was okay - people had no alternative.

we are now back to normal. The alter ice is to make arrangements and concentrate on work during work hours. That has to be the norm.

Alternative not alter ice!

@Mellowyellow222 You’re right about looking after children. I would not be happy about this either and expect staff to sort out childcare.
This does not apply in my situation.

I find this area challenging. I keep reading comments like I know I am 100% great at my job wfh or my work is done better than at the office etc, often followed by outrage that an employer dares to request people return to the office. The experiences I have had as a customer have been far from amazing and I get why employers are looking at the move back to the office. I get where employees are coming from but at the same time they seem to expect never to work face to face again.

@StayAtHomeJo what arrangements did you have when you were in the office five days a week? Can you go back to that arrangement 2-3 days a week?

So your husband wants company during the day - but it’s a lot to expect your employer to facilitate you never coming into the office.

too many people (and yes mainly women) are fighting against the return to the office for caring reasons. I understand it is hugely convenient for you to be home - but it is a big ask to never have to attend in person meetings. I have heard a lot of people argue that wfh is perfect and doesn’t impact productivity. In my experience and in my work area that is simply not true. While yes hybrid can work - people still need to attend in person meetings - brainstorming - meeting new employees and clients etc etc.

i think people now have unrealistic expectations about how much their employer should bend to facilitate their home lives.

I know I sound harsh - and I am genuinely flexible but there needs to be five and take.

Could you go to your LM with a proposal, eg you'll attend once/twice a week/month (or whatever you think is reasonable) for face to face meetings and spend the working day on site and the rest of your time wfh. If you can show flexibility it generally goes down well.

My employer has asked for 40% of time to be in the office, so 2 days for full time/5 days. When the announcement was made I spoke to my LM who agreed it was irrelevant for me as none of my team/colleagues/customers are based near me. I took the job on the understanding it was mostly remote, I don't care for dc during work hours but wfh means I can do half of the drop off/pick ups and my LM knew this from interview. so we've agreed that the 40% isn't an issue and has little benefit, I will attend meetings/events as and when- which right now means a day or two every couple of months and will be starting to do a couple of days a month from my local office to meet a few people I've chatted with.
A bit of flexibility goes a long way, provided the LM is generally a reasonable person.

I feel your pain, I'm in a similar situation.
WFH for the past 2yrs plus but now having to return to the office, not every day but for meetings and to show my face, liaise with the team etc.
I go in when my LM, who is very high up in the company, is in so that he sees me, then do a couple of days at home, I hate going in the office.
My mum is terminally ill, end of life, when I wfh I work from her house, it's stressful but I know I have to go back at some point.
I work for a company who also care about their employees and the work life balance but I go in so they know I'm making an effort and as the situation with my mum deteriorates they won't think I've been taking advantage, kinda like earning brownie points??
Some of our team are really aggaong returning to the office and are on my LM's radar.
I think you need to start going in, could you try to arrange meetings so that you have them on the same day?

If you need to be at home due to disabled family member then that would be a flexible working request @StayAtHomeJo
You may have more success with that than trying to convince them your job can be gone 100% at home when your LM doesn't agree.

You can't compare what happened in the lockdowns, we all worked in less than ideal circumstances then but the world has moved on now.
But do be prepared your employer can agree you can work from home except for a half day every week (or whatever ) when you must attend in person. They would expect you to sort out any care your relative may need on that day.

Depending on your employer, they may want a letter of supporting medical evidence that your relative needs you at home, just to cover themselves if other staff complain about different rules being applied.

You can push back, but I presume your contract still states your place of work being the office, so if you refused you'd be in breach of contract.

I've wfh for about 10 years, but I'm still expected to be in the office for team meetings and other meetings.

I'm afraid the changes you made, such as caring for another person is by the by. Nothing to do with your employer. You can request a change of contract to a more flexible approach but never going into the office really isn't feasible even if your contract states you wfh

You need to negotiate a percentage of your time in the office and a percentage at home. It is not unreasonable for the company or your line manager to ask you in for face to face meetings. Just because you have got on ok the last two years doesn't mean you will continue to do so, as staff turnover means you will have poorer relationships with new starters and not do your share of training and mentoring new starters and juniors. People who want 100% wfh now who didn't before really need to look at the bigger picture. It's not just about you, it's bout the team.

It is a huge concern that people now think it is acceptable that women will wfh and take in caring responsibilities. You can’t leave a meeting half way though to see to a crying baby or an adult who needs help.

lockdown was exceptional circumstances. Meetings were frequently disrupted but that was okay - people had no alternative.

we are now back to normal. The alternative is to make arrangements and concentrate on work during work hours. That has to be the norm.

^This

I don’t think anyone has suggested caring while working. As OP has said, it’s a case of providing food while she is getting her own lunch. For the majority of care-impacted cases it’s e.g. dropping kids at school, or being able to see elderly parents after work (rather than not getting home from a commute until 1930).

I also don’t think anyone disputes that these duties should be shared, but the reality is that they disproportionately affect women.

above all sadly and wrongly not all managers are singing from same hymn sheet thus people dong same job are not necessarily doing same number of days in office so really grossly unfair

Obviously it depends what industry and job you work in, but working fully from home and refusing to come in to the office when requested may also negatively impact women, if the male equivalents are going in. In my job for example, those making the effort to come in to the office and network are the ones building up better relationships, having face to faces with senior management, senior management seeing what they're doing at work, getting mentoring and line management opportunities. This will negatively impact those who don't come in, and therefore if it is mainly women will negatively impact women.

It really depends what people want from their careers. I personally would prefer to be actively engaging face to face with colleagues and managers, and take my turn to train and mentor new starters. And since I have started coming in to the office and taking up the opportunities I have had two large pay rises and a promotion, which the people refusing to come back in to the office haven't got.

Yes , but there has to be five and take here.

unless people were employed for a defined 100% working from home role they must expect to have to go into the office regularly.

covid accelerated hybrid working, and that is great. But now that these hybrid arrangements are being implemented we have a lot of people (and yes mainly female) saying their domestic arrangements mean they can’t come back to the incite even for say two or three days a week.

three years ago being offered this arrangement would have been welcomed with open arms.

I have lost track of the number of people who tell me their domestic arrangements mean they can’t attend meetings during school run times, who leave meeting to attend to family members, who try to dial into meetings from elderly relatives houses which have poor broadband. Of course when it was impossible to get cadres for children or vulnerable and ill adults this was necessary and people were afforded as much flexibility as possible. But daycare is open, carers can come back into homes. People have to spend their dedicated work hours hours working - and in most cases that will now be a blend of working from home and coming into the office.

as a manager I simply couldn’t guarantee that someone will never have to come to the office to attend meetings, attend training, meet and train their own teams, etc etc. More than half my team have caring responsibilities- the burden of all the in office work would fall disproportionately on those who don’t have caring responsibilities- that isn’t fair.

I might sound uncaring - and I will be as flexible as possible - but there has to be balance.

@Mellowyellow222 I agree it's about balance and being part of a team. It's very self centered and not helpful to the team for someone to say they're not coming in because they worked perfectly well from home the last two years. Well yes but now there are face to face meetings and events that benefit the business and people have to take their turn at the in-office side of the job. Asking people to come in to the office 2-3 days a week is really not unreasonable, and is actually quite flexible and understanding of the company.

So the business should work around your wants and domestic situation, but you wouldn't be happy other staff asking for the same?

If it's due to a change in personal circs/ caring responsibilities then you should consider putting in a flexible working request.

On what basis have you established there is " no business need " to be in the office?

There's a difference between "we coped" or "well it suits me as an individual better to be at home" and the business succeeding.

You could ask to continue working from home as a reasonable adjustment for disability (mental health) assuming you have made them aware and its not something that you are only convieniently mentioning now.
You could also try saying that preventing you from caring for the disabled adult could be discrimination by association but that's more likely to succeed as an an argument if, for example, the caring is done when you would normally be expected to commute, not when you'd be expected to actually work.
They could still turn around and say no though.
I'd find another job that is fully WFH.
When I started my job, I negotiated a home based contract as a reasonable adjustment for disability although I do need to travel for work sometimes. This works okay for me. If the amount of travel increased to an unreasonable amount, I'd just change jobs.

we were the busiest we have ever been in about 30 years through lockdown we met all our targets and more working from home we didnt just cope

I’m not sure how people on here can say ‘we just coped’ during lockdowns. Seems a bit convenient now to play down the efforts many workers (women!) made during extremely difficult times teaching/caring for their children and carrying out a full time job remotely.

No one said ‘we were just coping’ at the time did they that I remember.

Late passports and slow dvla responses are not solely down to women trying to breastfeed and wfh like a lot of mnetters here seem to believe.

Interesting how quick returners (men!) to the office are networking their way up the career ladder once again.

I changed company's so I wouldn't have to go back into the office. Not probably what you want to hear OP!

Those saying you can't build relationships remotely are wrong. It works really well for our company with colleagues spread around the world.

Because l know I won't see them face to face I don't use that as an excuse not build good relationships remotely 🤷