Civil service - will you strike?

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My department has been informed today that we must now return to the office at least 4 days a week. I only joined CS 6 months ago after applying for a role that was advertised as 60/40 hybrid (2 days in the office per week). The pay is nowhere near what I’d get in private sector but I didn’t join for that, I joined purely for the flexible benefits. We’ve already been told we’ll get a maximum of a 2% pay rise this year after years of freezes, I was willing to go along with that but I draw the line here.
I can’t afford at this moment in time to be doubling the amount I pay for parking and the amount I pay for commuting. In addition, I just don’t want my work/life balance to go back to how it was before, I was run into the ground working full time from an office, raising 2 young kids (one with SEND) and running a home. Yes, I have a partner that does 50% but he works full time too. With hybrid working I could drop off my children and pick them up 2 days a week. That will be gone now. On top of the increased commuting costs, I’ll also have to find money for childcare an extra 2 days a week. I think there’s an element of discrimination against women because, let’s be honest here, we’re the ones who will be leaving in droves because we can’t reconcile the benefits any longer.
I know there are people who don’t have the benefit of hybrid working, but that’s a choice. I chose hybrid and now it’s completely out of my control even though I have followed to the letter what was asked of us.
If you work for CS and the union ask you to strike, will you?

@Sunnyshoeshine i like this idea, can just imagine swathes of people waiting for their turn to be allocated a desk by him. Would wipe that smarmy smile off his face for sure 🤣

London weighting is a joke. In no way does it reflect the increased cost of living in the capital versus elsewhere, so really i'd just let this one go

Civil service code doesn’t apply to ministers

@elliedoodles I know it doesn't, but it's still a tack to take to him. Given he's head of "Government Efficiency", his behaviour is very poor towards civil servants. Why not point out how he wouldn't get away with this as a boss within a regular job? He's not better than anyone else.

Fine to point out that it’s a crap thing to do, but zero value in citing codes that don’t apply.

In answer to the original OP, I was shocked to hear DfE has basically caved in this way. My dept has a 40% requirement which is staying for now I believe.

Apparently the problem isn’t those of us who do hybrid working but the people who have never been to the office once in 2022.

I’m just feeling so demoralised. I am only on my second CS job. I was proud to get in. I wanted to work for the good of the public, even though I could earn more in the private sector. I understand that people are frustrated about delays with customer service for things like the DVLA but I don’t work in customer service.

I understand the idea that some people need to be able to pop into offices to discuss things (so says JRM) but I do not have that kind of job. I have a job where I need protected time to concentrate. If someone wants to do the 2022 equivalent of just popping in, they can message me on Teams and Slack.

I understand that there are concerns about informal development opportunities for junior staff, but I’m not convinced they happen in offices either (except by randomly listening to bits of conversations). We have junior staff in our team and we invite them to things that may be of interest for their development. In my opinion having office working as the default makes it easier not to bother finding structured opportunities for junior staff as people will just leave them to hang around the office and learn by osmosis instead of actually supporting them.

I love my job, in spite of the pay freezes and constant attacks. I work really hard, my whole team does, and all I want is to be able to do some of my work at home where I can actually bloody concentrate.

@elliedoodles the Ministerial Code applies which says in the fourth paragraph that there must be no bullying or harrassment.

Keep on with the 2 days in you were promised. Point out the advert and email and tell your manager you will stick to the previously advised and agreed arrangements as you wouldn't have taken a 4 day a week.office job. Things will change - once elections over the tories will lose some interest in battering public sector workers for a while.

But ultimately, with 4 days office based, that is hybrid! It's not ideal, but even voting with their feet won't impact as others will apply for the other benefits, same way you did.

Yes, I will. It feels like a kick in the teeth after how hard we've all worked over the pandemic.

Euch so fed up of the headlines thst civil servants at whatever council are not back at their desks and I'm like

1. OK and what is thr problem with working from home if it works
2. Council workers are not fricking civil servants!!!!

Most private sector companies have staff back in the office now and have been back since 2020/early 2021. I would look for a WFH job op. Some jobs are better served in the office, with a team and yes some work well from home, but not all. If the job requires you at the desk then you either go back or get a new job.

I am having terrible experiences with the DVLA, passport helpline, council bin collection, White company and many others beside that are now apparently working 'successfully' from home - only the customer service is absolutely dire and there was a child screaming all the way through my last call. I am sorry but I think we need to get back to proper service, full offices supporting the rest of the economy and out of pjs!

If you can't do it, then find a new job.

I don't think you can insist on two days either. You will just end up with a disciplinary notice as you are not able to fulfil your job adequately.

A lot of CS departments have zero contact with the public so I'm not sure if that rationale is particularly encompassing. Reality is lots of people will just leave, which suits their plans by the way as they're hoping for natural wastage to reduce numbers- 'service' will be even worse with tens of thousands less people. Despite what the mail says my previous colleagues all work really hard and are currently often doing the work of several people anyway, it's just like the rest of the public services such as teaching and nursing; people jumping ship in large numbers.

That's the point though, OP likely can fulfil the job, it's pointless posturing to keep their property portfolios buoyant.

eforty I am sure they can be replaced if they wish to leave, it is not the end of the world. We need an injection of energy in this country, so many sectors have become lethargic and insular. We need buoyancy and good energy from committed people. We are in the office, and it is great! I think people forget how nice it is work with others, and have a life outside the home.

@Swayingpalmtrees A few responses to your points:

1. Yes, I see your point about customer service and I agree. My job, however, has nothing to do with Joe Public. The only contact I have with other people is colleagues within my department. Why do I need to be in the office all of the time for that when there’s such good technology available these days?


2. I have returned to the office! I’m there for 50% of my working week. It’s great, my colleagues are great and we all work well together. There’s a good atmosphere. But again, why is 50% of time not adequate? You can’t tell me that spending more than that with your colleagues is more beneficial than being there for your children, getting out in the garden on a sunny day (where it’s also perfectly possible to do a great job), going for a walk in the woods at lunch time. It’s pure presenteeism, which the Civil Service is adamant it doesn’t value.


3. I do have a life outside of the home, but, as much as I like my colleagues, that’s exactly what they are (no offence intended to those of you who may be my colleagues!). They are not my friends or family. That was the same wherever I’ve worked, and I’ve worked full time in an office before. That’s not going to change just because I’m there more.

@Efortyjive is absolutely right that I can do my job perfectly well from home even 100% of the time, but I am actually happy to be in the office 2 days. What I’m not happy about is what I see as a backwards step away from the excellent work life balance that people now expect (and there is no valid argument to say why people shouldn’t expect that other than ‘because I have to so you have to too’)

Ah yes, they can just be replaced like all of the teachers and nurses who are leaving. Oh wait. If depends on the role and the department really, where I worked the same vacancies would be put out for several cycles before getting any suitable applicants, it isn't the case that people are clamouring for them. Entry level jobs maybe (even then though grads and school leavers have better prospects elsewhere now), and yes some people will join for the eroded perks, but the quality and quantity of people leaving is really sad. We

Being in the office doesn't equal commited. I worked with one of the laziest people ever and they were in office everyday as they lived down the road.

Most private sector companies I know are still allowing part time work from home. My husband only has to go in twice a week, his brother once a week, my best friend is twice a week - all private sector.

Civil servants have always been the whipping boys of ministers and the daily mail. My job is completely computer based and there is little I can't do without a quick teams call if needed. Some people may find it great to be in thr office but I personally hate it. I work much better at home where I also have the flexibility to work to my natural sleeping pattern which makes me more productive rather than be up at half 6 to get into the office and be exhausted all the time. I don't get interrupted by noise, takes me 30 seconds to go to the bathroom across the hall rather than the 5 mins it takes me to walk across a large office to find a loo thars not out of service.

Finally I have a properly set up desk rather than trying to find a suitable desk and chair every day and quite honestly not succeeding and don't have to drag and heavy bag with my laptop in back and forth. Which means I am in far less pain and therefore far more productive.

We don't even have London weighting anymore so removing it is total nonsense.

I will not be returning to the office after my maternity leave more than a day or two a week unless they can guarantee me a suitable desk every day. I am not paying to travel into work every day, paying extra child care (as its by the hour) and then paying for physios and massages to try and sort the damage done to my body for no real reason than it looks good to voters. Honestly I think jrm actions look more childish and passive aggressive than anyone I would want to vote for.

Ps who has been taking huge pay rises now and at other times of austerity when civil servants have had pay freezes.

Wed also have more people at desk if they didn't create so much red tape to hire people that it took six months to replace anyone. My ten person team was down to 3 for months due to that. Staff shortages are a major issue.

Many of the people you have mentioned are not civil servants - they are also not the people moggs is attacking. Its central govt civil servants he's moaning about most of whom have no contact with the public.

Has anylne seen the email from fda. I will try and post here.

I was remembering when they put pressure on civil servants to work from home during the London olympics. I don't mind being asked to work from a specific location where there are genuine work benefits but sometimes it's nothing to do with work, just that we're bodies they can easily order around and have us in or out of London as they see fit.

My department have asked people to go back a bit, maybe a couple of days, if you all don’t mind pretty please. A lot of people have refused to go back in at all and the SMT are getting increasingly pissed off about it. So I expect we will get ordered back, soon, and probably less flexibly than many of us would want, because clearly “work it out among yourselves” isn’t getting anywhere.

I am pretty fed up of everyone involved here. Ministers for showboating, my own department for being useless and waffly, and lots of my own colleagues for dragging their feet and whining to a point where it’ll likely jeopardise flexibility for the rest of us. Oh and also the unions, for being all over home working like the fate of the world depends on it but not saying a peep on things like our working conditions over lockdown when schools and nurseries were closed.

Agree OP, really disappointing if the stance now reverts back to being 'present ' and forgetting that most back office civil servants have worked effectively from home during the last 2 years delivering vital services.I felt excited for once for the future of my job, the flexibility work/life balance approach. It may make me jump ship ultimately as I'm approaching a cross roads but hybrid working would have swayed me to stay.

I would find a new job op that is fully working from home, you sound well qualified and I think this battle is going to trundle on. Made worse by the idiots that moved hundreds of miles away to a far flung farm and now have no option to travel into the city. You should have a job that works for you and your family.

Lots of my friends are in similar positions and accept they are going to need to go back. They were told it was because their home servers are not secure, and they open to hacking etc, cohesiveness of the team etc. It was a good run over lockdown and most saved a fortune not having to buy annual train tickets and are treating themselves to luxury holidays and new kitchens.

I am in a hard-to-fill role and could earn more in the private sector. I chose to join the CS as I would rather work for the public than to make money for businesses.

I like going to the office a bit but I can’t work there all the time because I need quiet.