Civil service - higher grade or permanent post?

ColouringPencils · 2022-04-21T10:10:06+00:00

Can't decide whether to apply for an SEO post that is fixed term for 12 months (and it does sound like it is really fixed) or HEO permanent. My current job is not civil service but is permanent and between HEO and SEO salaries, so the permanent role would be a pay cut. But my current role doesn't offer the progression or other benefits that civil service does, so I think even the slight pay cut is worth it long term. SEO role sounds more interesting (of course) but could be out of a job in a year. WWYD?

ChairCareOh · 21/04/2022 11:13

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Thestoppedfan · 21/04/2022 11:15

I agree- SEO role. There’s so many jobs in the civil service once you are in you won’t struggle to do a sideways step or promotion once your contract is up.

Original poster

ColouringPencils · 21/04/2022 11:29

Thanks. It seems a bit daunting, but maybe that is more from the outsider prospective. DH is NHS and also thinks it would not be that risky (and he is not a risk taker).

OP posts:

JustJam4Tea · 21/04/2022 11:32

Definitely go for the SEO, worst comes to the worst you can go back to HEO in a year somewhere but have better experience. Once you are in it is pretty easy to move around.

PeterPomegranate · 21/04/2022 11:34

I agree go for the more senior role. If you’re good it’s highly likely they’ll want to keep you / other opportunities will come up.

muddymuddyboots · 21/04/2022 21:07

Why would you not just apply for both?

muddymuddyboots · 21/04/2022 21:08

PS I joined the civil service as an SEO on a 12-month contract and am now in a permanent role 🙂

It can be hard to get in though so you really shouldn’t narrow your options if both these roles are of interest.

If you mean which one to accept then definitely SEO!

Tomikka · 21/04/2022 21:19

As fixed term comes to a close you will have priority status for applying for other posts.

There is the potential that you don’t get another job, and ultimately end up surplus facing the risk of redundancy. But unless it’s in a smaller department or you’re in an area without many jobs then you can move on - either onto a permanent role or there are always fixed term roles being created for either true fixed term tasks or because someone can’t justify a job requirement as permanent (which might manage to justify extensions or conversion to permanence)

Original poster

ColouringPencils · 21/04/2022 21:35

@muddymuddyboots yes I could apply to both, but they are in the same department and have closing dates 1 week apart, so I would worry someone considering me for SEO could see I had applied for HEO and think I was below par... Would that not happen in civil service? I am involved in hiring in my current role and don't think I would be that impressed by a candidate also going for a lower grade.

OP posts:

muddymuddyboots · 21/04/2022 21:45

Tomikka · 21/04/2022 21:19

As fixed term comes to a close you will have priority status for applying for other posts.

There is the potential that you don’t get another job, and ultimately end up surplus facing the risk of redundancy. But unless it’s in a smaller department or you’re in an area without many jobs then you can move on - either onto a permanent role or there are always fixed term roles being created for either true fixed term tasks or because someone can’t justify a job requirement as permanent (which might manage to justify extensions or conversion to permanence)

This isn’t correct re priority status.

muddymuddyboots · 21/04/2022 21:49

ColouringPencils · 21/04/2022 21:35

@muddymuddyboots yes I could apply to both, but they are in the same department and have closing dates 1 week apart, so I would worry someone considering me for SEO could see I had applied for HEO and think I was below par... Would that not happen in civil service? I am involved in hiring in my current role and don't think I would be that impressed by a candidate also going for a lower grade.

No, this really is not a thing. Your application for each role will be scored against the criteria for that role. And these grades are not so far apart - the behaviour descriptions are the same for both for example. Stop overthinking this and apply for both.

I hope this might also inspire you to rethink your approach to hiring in future. Why would you be unimpressed by someone aiming for multiple roles that interest them?

RIPLilliththeLynx · 21/04/2022 21:57

muddymuddyboots · 21/04/2022 21:49

No, this really is not a thing. Your application for each role will be scored against the criteria for that role. And these grades are not so far apart - the behaviour descriptions are the same for both for example. Stop overthinking this and apply for both.

I hope this might also inspire you to rethink your approach to hiring in future. Why would you be unimpressed by someone aiming for multiple roles that interest them?

Show quote history

2nd this. I've been on recruiting panels, people do this all the time and it will not be held against you - it isn't like you're applying for HEO and DD roles! Go for both - increases your chances!

Original poster

ColouringPencils · 21/04/2022 22:51

@muddymuddyboots re recruitment, I guess it's because I work for a fairly small organisation and we would expect people to be passionate about the specific role they applied for. Applying for more than one might look a bit like you are not that bothered. I also wonder if them applying for the lower grade would make me feel they were not confident in their ability to do the higher grade. Should say this is hypothetical as it hasn't happened to me in recruitment. I am probably just overthinking it!

I did apply for an HEO role in a different dept last autumn. It was very different to my career so far, but I was looking for a change and thought it sounded really interesting. I passed the tests and did an online interview but didn't get further.
The roles I am looking at now are both much more like my career history. I do feel a bit burned by my first application to the civil service though, especially considering it would have been a pay cut.

OP posts:

RIPLilliththeLynx · 21/04/2022 23:21

ColouringPencils · 21/04/2022 22:51

@muddymuddyboots re recruitment, I guess it's because I work for a fairly small organisation and we would expect people to be passionate about the specific role they applied for. Applying for more than one might look a bit like you are not that bothered. I also wonder if them applying for the lower grade would make me feel they were not confident in their ability to do the higher grade. Should say this is hypothetical as it hasn't happened to me in recruitment. I am probably just overthinking it!

I did apply for an HEO role in a different dept last autumn. It was very different to my career so far, but I was looking for a change and thought it sounded really interesting. I passed the tests and did an online interview but didn't get further.
The roles I am looking at now are both much more like my career history. I do feel a bit burned by my first application to the civil service though, especially considering it would have been a pay cut.

Just in case @muddymuddyboots doesn't reply - you're overthinking this. HEO/SEO is a workhorse grade, people recruiting/sifting understand that people apply for more than one job. You're doing far more than most candidates by just thinking about your application in this way.

muddymuddyboots · 23/04/2022 08:47

ColouringPencils · 21/04/2022 22:51

@muddymuddyboots re recruitment, I guess it's because I work for a fairly small organisation and we would expect people to be passionate about the specific role they applied for. Applying for more than one might look a bit like you are not that bothered. I also wonder if them applying for the lower grade would make me feel they were not confident in their ability to do the higher grade. Should say this is hypothetical as it hasn't happened to me in recruitment. I am probably just overthinking it!

I did apply for an HEO role in a different dept last autumn. It was very different to my career so far, but I was looking for a change and thought it sounded really interesting. I passed the tests and did an online interview but didn't get further.
The roles I am looking at now are both much more like my career history. I do feel a bit burned by my first application to the civil service though, especially considering it would have been a pay cut.

As I said, I really hope this makes you rethink your approach to recruitment. I’m really surprised that after sharing how unsure you feel about these roles, you would also suggest someone in the very same boat is somehow not passionate or confident enough! People are allowed to apply for multiple jobs.

Did you get feedback from the other interview? It is really hard to get in, lots of people find it takes multiple attempts, so I hope this won’t put you off applying again - and we will judge your application against the criteria for the role, not on whether you’ve applied for other jobs.