Civil Service Employment Questions

[MangoSmooothie]

Hello,

I currently work for local government, but am looking at some roles on the Civil Service site. I have a few of questions, and wondered if anyone that works for the CV could help, please?

1. Please can you explain how the pay works e.g. are there annual increments? If so, are these automatic within the pay range or performance related?

1. Would my continuous service in local government be recognised with CV?

1. I know most civil servants have been working from home for the last 2 years, but I wondered what the long term plans are for your CS department? E.g. hybrid, all home based, all office etc?

Lastly, any recommendations or advice about which departments to go for or avoid? I’m looking at SEO/Grade 7 HR or business management roles.

Thanks!

1. Haha no. You'll start at the bottom of 'scale' and pretty much stay there. There are extremely small (less than inflation) increments yearly for cost of living which have only just started again this year after a pay freeze, but that's it. My office has performance related pay in the form of a small 6 monthly bonus, but it isn't guaranteed and a lot of departments don't have this.

1. No. I used to work in Local Government and it didn't count

1. Every department/office has its good and bad points. I've worked in the DWP and didn't like it, but I like where I am currently (work for one of the regulators). Have a look on Glassdoor at reviews, they're good at giving a snapshot of the overall culture of an organisation.

Forgot to add, we're doing hybrid working, one day in the office, the rest at home. Each office is different though.

1. Yes there are steps that you go up annually within each band, so long as you aren’t on any sort of performance plan.

1. Don’t know sorry.

1. I work for one of the devolved administrations, absolutely love it. Long term is looking likely to be hybrid to whatever degree suits you individually and as a team (for me 1 day per week in office).

1. Good luck with the pay increments - even if it's promised, whether or not you actually ever see the payrise is a different question.

1. I would imagine that it doesn't count as not CS but not 100% sure.

1. Depends on the needs of your role. I organise my time as i please but need to go in for meetings about 2 days a week. A friend in a different department has to do 3 days office 2 days WFH so it really depends.

The positive is that WFH has been fairly standard in CS before covid.

For MoD Army:

1. Please can you explain how the pay works e.g. are there annual increments? If so, are these automatic within the pay range or performance related?

It used to be incremental across a ‘pay spine’ with a minimum annual increase up the spine points and for a few years a performance report based spine point increase For years now the spine points exist but you stay on that point, any pay rise is a percentage adjustment to the spine. If someone is part way up the spine then they now stay put, when you enter a grade you arrive at the bottom (provided it is x% above your previous grade if promoted - which it now will be except for a select few) Each year you expect a percentage increase to your spine, except for the years of pay freeze (Note that often when government have advertised a pay rise of x% that was a percentage cap to the total pay bill and has gone to the lowest paid grades, and the money ran out for higher grades) A pay rise is promised this year

1. Would my continuous service in local government be recognised with CV?

Depending on departments you can have previous government service taken into account.

1. I know most civil servants have been working from home for the last 2 years, but I wondered what the long term plans are for your CS department? E.g. hybrid, all home based, all office etc?

It can vary even between departments. At the beginning of lockdown 1 I stayed in office for an extra few days supporting those in Covid teams. Following that I have been WFH pretty much ever since with the occasional days on site (not necessarily in office) Others have needed to be in either due to what they were doing in their role or their personal circumstances Currently our policy is hybrid working, I was discussing with a friend last night - someone else she knows in the same building as me now has to come in and she was asking about me - I actually went in for one day last week The difference will be his role supports a need for him to be in, and he supports people in the building. My role supports people across the country, my ‘main’ customers are on the same site as me, but they are as likely to be WFH. My service providers that I spend most time communicating with are in different parts of the country So being in doesn’t give any major benefit - when I’ve been in I spend time on remote meetings and heads down into my screen In our team with picked the most likely days of the week for hybrid working in office, but are not just going in for the sake of being in Currently it’s going to be one to three days per month for particular things, and then extras as required

Lastly, any recommendations or advice about which departments to go for or avoid? I’m looking at SEO/Grade 7 HR or business management roles.
I’ve only been in the MoD, but peoples experiences vary - I’ve had jobs where things have been intense or easy going (mostly easy going)
The people make a difference - I’ve worked with dickheads and the hardest part was managing their fallout, but throughout I’ve always had good team relationships

The best parts are flexibility & security.
Job security isn’t the same today as it was when I began, but a civil servant is never going to find themselves suddenly redundant. They can end up redundant, but only after months of review, consultation etc and all those that I have seen have home ‘voluntarily’ - and a few that took redundancy and ran because ‘all this change is shot’ but were then looking for how long they had to wait to keep their payout after working in the real world

Flexibility is great, I work flexi time and have good leave. I prefer long weekends, and can easily have Friday to Monday off for anything I want to do - it does of course mean planning to avoid conflicts, but in my role I can and have covered a dial in meeting etc whilst sat in a field

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I’m a bit surprised about the pay structure and wonder where the incentive is if there is no progression within the allocated pay spine? This will also inform which jobs I will consider apply for, as assuming I’d be appointed at the bottom of any pay spine, I’d need to ensure there is sufficient uplift between my current salary, and the new salary to make it worth the move.

Lots to think about. Thanks again.

@MangoSmooothie

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I’m a bit surprised about the pay structure and wonder where the incentive is if there is no progression within the allocated pay spine? This will also inform which jobs I will consider apply for, as assuming I’d be appointed at the bottom of any pay spine, I’d need to ensure there is sufficient uplift between my current salary, and the new salary to make it worth the move.

Lots to think about. Thanks again.

Incentives are a good point

One argument against automatic spine point progression is that if Bert has been in the same grade for 10 years and Fred just 2 years then Fred gets paid less for the equivalent job.
In the long term everyone will get paid the same in the same grade.
Increments would then be the agreed percentage pay rise

To progress you go for promotion

You can potentiality get a bonus recommendation and payment (it’s actually part of the overall pay package - so you get one or you don’t)

As an incentive I’ve worked in areas where I’ve seen the fruits of my actions providing a service to people (indirectly) so my incentive has been to ‘do good’
In my current job I work on the data and information to support business cases, decision making and ‘better’ use of tax payers money (and hopefully the non spending of money if it’s not justified)
I can see some point and benefit to what I do

I could now retire early, and I have a combination of the good old fashioned pension and the newer ‘less good’ pension. My ‘less good’ pension can be claimed earlier than my ‘better’ pension
However I would afford to live, but not afford to spend as much as I want
The flexibility today wins for me.

If I was to take the money and ‘retire’ then I’d either be getting another job, (and losing flexibility) or I have to make some proper money out of my spare hobby of buying & selling. That’s a genuine option for me as I have access to friends shops - but would need to go big

Definitely look at the salary that you would get paid on arrival, and ensure that it’s worth it for you

If there are claims of a pay range from x to y then ensure that the department does actually progress
The other thing you may consider is that the pay you go in at might be worth it for you as a foot in the door if the prospects work for progress into applying for other roles on promotion

It’s now possible to enter at any grade, but external applicants sit behind internal applications

Thanks again for your detailed response and advice. I totally take your point about people in the same role being paid the same. This is just so different in my experience of local government where you normally go in at the lowest scale point, and then progress upwards annually until you reach the top and then remain there.

I have been looking at jobs with starting salaries of only a couple or few thousand above what I’m on now, on the basis that I thought I’d progress upwards in the long term. If I’d be staying on the lowest point, I’d have to make a significant jump to make it worth my while, financially.

I’m currently in a role working 42 weeks per year, so my salary is pro rata’d. In order to move to a full year contract (I do want this now that my DC are grown), I’d want to be on more that what my existing contract would be if I worked FT, otherwise, mentally, it will feel like a sideways move or even a step back.

I do also agree that further opportunities of progression could be available if I moved to the CS. I’m currently at the top of my scale, with no further progression options available.

Arrrgh, I thought I’d made the decision to move, but now I’m more confused!

Be very aware that WFH/office varies from dept to dept. We have been made to return back to the office a minimum of 3 days a week (not customer facing, in fact no "customers") and it hasn't gone down overly well.

We did away with increments many years ago on the assumption that after about a year you would be as skilled as someone who has been there 10 so unfair to pay less.

You can absolutely negotiate your starting salary in the CS. One of my team members has just done this and has got a very good deal. However, that might depend on how desperate the organisation is to recruit. Give it a go. They can only say no and it absolutely won't result in you losing your successful candidate status at all.

And also we don't and can't prioritise internal candidates over external ones if the post is advertised on CS Jobs and invites external candidates. That goes against the Fair and Open Recruitment principles that we have to abide by which are set out by the Civil Service Commission.

All sifting is done blind so we only see the answers to the Success Profiles set out in the advert, to enable us to invite the highest scoring candidates to interview.

As others have said, every department operates different requirements for WFH and office attendance, so it is difficult to advise on that.

Don't underestimate what your pension adds in terms of benefits - mine is the main reason I stay (and the fab people/culture/flexibility).

I'm also a G7 and on the bottom of my pay band since I started 3 yrs ago.... the pay band minimum just goes up a bit each year that's all.

Thank you. The pension is a definite draw and I know is very generous, more than my current pension which isn’t bad either.

As a previous poster has said, you can try and negotiate your pay, usually within the pay brackets, although not all depts have pay brackets.

The larger departments that appear to pay well are HMRC and MOD and DWP is pretty decent. MOJ is one of the lower paying depts but they’ve just had a pay rise.

I have found in my experience in CS recruitment that external candidates always had that bargaining power and could receive the pay they requested (within reason) whereas internal applicants were made to start on the bottom and couldn’t negotiate. It’s always worth a try if you’re successful anyway.

I currently work from home and just go in if I feel like it or we have a team meeting. My team are across the the country so makes no difference where we work and there’s not the office space to go in every day. I know of others who have to go in three days a week now so I feel very lucky to have that choice. I would say it’s totally dependent on not only your dept but also your manager. A previous manager was intent on everyone being in the office as much as possible when covid restrictions were starting to be lifted.

@PrincessInPyjamas

You can absolutely negotiate your starting salary in the CS. One of my team members has just done this and has got a very good deal. However, that might depend on how desperate the organisation is to recruit. Give it a go. They can only say no and it absolutely won't result in you losing your successful candidate status at all.

And also we don't and can't prioritise internal candidates over external ones if the post is advertised on CS Jobs and invites external candidates. That goes against the Fair and Open Recruitment principles that we have to abide by which are set out by the Civil Service Commission.

All sifting is done blind so we only see the answers to the Success Profiles set out in the advert, to enable us to invite the highest scoring candidates to interview.

As others have said, every department operates different requirements for WFH and office attendance, so it is difficult to advise on that.

• if the post is advertised on CS Jobs and invites external candidates.

I was mainly referring to posts advertised internally.
Depending on department and the justification for that role, a post may be advertised to department only (this should now be rare & justified as to why), civil service wide, or existing civil service & external candidates

Once an advert is external all applicants must be treated equally

@MangoSmooothie

Thanks again for your detailed response and advice. I totally take your point about people in the same role being paid the same. This is just so different in my experience of local government where you normally go in at the lowest scale point, and then progress upwards annually until you reach the top and then remain there.

I have been looking at jobs with starting salaries of only a couple or few thousand above what I’m on now, on the basis that I thought I’d progress upwards in the long term. If I’d be staying on the lowest point, I’d have to make a significant jump to make it worth my while, financially.

I’m currently in a role working 42 weeks per year, so my salary is pro rata’d. In order to move to a full year contract (I do want this now that my DC are grown), I’d want to be on more that what my existing contract would be if I worked FT, otherwise, mentally, it will feel like a sideways move or even a step back.

I do also agree that further opportunities of progression could be available if I moved to the CS. I’m currently at the top of my scale, with no further progression options available.

Arrrgh, I thought I’d made the decision to move, but now I’m more confused!

• This is just so different in my experience of local government where you normally go in at the lowest scale point, and then progress upwards annually until you reach the top and then remain there.

There may be departments that still progress on the pay spine/scale

I’m in the MoD and we were among the first to get terms of service restrictions, because we’re all clearly Whitehall civil service mandarin fat cats and make bad headlines in the Daily Mail battering us against the Army & NHS. Until of course the Army & NHS are squandering tax payers money when it comes to their pay reviews

The civil service is a good place to work with its own benefits
It’s just a matter of making sure the right ones are there for you