Recruiters - why would you not employ a SAHM?

[Movetothebeat]

This is a question specifically for those who make the decisions on recruitment:

Why would you not employ a long-term SAHM? What puts you off? What would the candidate need to demonstrate to convince you to consider them as a serious candidate?

I ask because I’ve been a SAHM for 7 years, after having been working for 20 years following University. So far I’ve only applied for 3 jobs, got an interview for 1, but didn’t get it. I’ve seen too much on MN and other places to think I’m on the scrap heap, plus being late 40’s doesn’t help

I’d like to address any recruiters concerns about seeing me as a possibility before I apply for anymore positions.

Stary. Can you not see how your attitude will massively work against you. You honestly sound like a complete nightmare with that sort of attitude.

@Franklin12

Stary. Can you not see how your attitude will massively work against you. You honestly sound like a complete nightmare with that sort of attitude.

I think this is where the gulf shows between what goes on in different kinds of jobs. In a salaried position with bonus, opportunities for progression etc then it’s completely normal to work out of hours at times. As has been stated, the salary, bonus etc is the benefit for that.

I think Stary is maybe thinking of more like NMW jobs where of course expectation of working outside of hours is unreasonable.

Reminds me of a friend I had who sneered openly about me getting a bonus in my role. You don’t get that in my job etc etc. Without pausing for breath she then went on to talk about when she was claiming back the 15 minutes she had stayed late the other day. No way was she letting that one slide! I patiently explained that perhaps I got a bonus because I occasionally spent whole weekends working. She was completely oblivious and continued to believe that she was utterly hard done by not getting a bonus

School admin roles are very desirable,

There are plenty of WFH admin and PA roles have you considered these? A lot offer flexibility.

I would hire a SAHM if they could demonstrate they had the skills and could commit to the role. Are you flexible to hours? And apply for responsible locations?

I did refuse to interview a SAHM when she applied through a recruiter and point blank refused to ever travel to site

One time I recruited for an admin role I choose the SAHM - we had interviewed about 5 people and it came down to the SAHM with good admin experience, although the experience was 8+ years old, versus a recent university leaver who had crammed SO MUCH into the very few years since she left school and seemed very ambitious. They were pretty even in the interview and the desktop test. We went for the SAHM as we thought she was a better fit for the role and thought that she would be more likely to stay with us for a while as the role was exactly what she was looking for in relation to school pick ups. Also the role was one where you needed enhanced vetting due to the environment so it was such a pain when you spend months getting someone in, train them up and then they leave so you have to recruit again, as you’d spend months without someone in post in between. She did really well in that role and has moved upwards internally a few times since.

I work at a job centre and see claimants who have been in your situation find work. 3 applications really isn’t much so try not to let the experience with these employers knock your confidence. Congratulations on the interview, you obviously come across well and offer much value to employers

O/p, i was where you are 5 years ago. Couldn’t get an interview, let alone a job.

I found the trick was to focus on governmental type roles- they have very clear recruitment and is often formulaic, competency and points based, as long as you can hit the key phrases and examples, the previous structure of your career doesn’t come into it.

So Nhs, civil service, council, police etc. Once I got an interview, it was simple to c&p, make minor adjustments to suit the role, and I was getting interviews every time.

Then once I started getting the interviews, i went to all of them and the practice meant I learned the structure and the answers. They were also very good at feedback and even in some cases inviting me in to show me the role and talk through it.

I got a basic admin role, and once you’re in these organisations moving roles for experience and promotion is very much encouraged. You’ve now also got that recent employment on your cv.

I was also going to suggest temping - it's lower risk for the employer so they're more likely to take a punt on someone they like the look of but have concerns about the amount of time out of the workplace.

It depends on whether the person wants to progress as well @TiddleyWink - a friend's daughter started work as a min wage customer service assistant at major national retailer. Within a couple of years she'd progressed to supervisor and then was interviewing for assistant manager; what marked her out was her attitude to work compared to her colleagues. She didn't huff about an extra (paid) 15 mins, or huff about taking on new tasks, key-holder responsibilities etc. - all stuff she could then show at interview as evidence of her capability for progressing in the company. Above all, it showed she actually wanted to be there and provide a good service for their customers, which is the whole point of retail and hospitality.

@Scarby9

Sometimes the skills gained as a SAHM are definitely relevant. We interviewed someone with 5 children (blended family) who had homeschooled during lockdown, while working and completing her degree. She told us that she had absolutely proven that she could prioritise and organise her time, and the huge effort she had had to put in to completing her degree while keeping her children fed, cared for and educated should prive to us without a shadow of a doubt thst she was dedicated to making a success of the role for which she had applied. We agreed.

How did she prove her children were well looked after?

I am not saying they were, but how did she demonstrate that?

@JassyRadlett

I was also going to suggest temping - it's lower risk for the employer so they're more likely to take a punt on someone they like the look of but have concerns about the amount of time out of the workplace.

This is great advice - it takes weeks to onboard and reference perm candidates but an agency has already done it all for them. The company isn't the employer in this instance either, so if you're not up to the role after a couple of weeks it's a quick chat to explain that you're not a good fit. Same on your side too - it's usually only a week's notice as the agency worker, so if where you have applied to turns out to be a total nightmare you can get out very quickly with far less awkwardness.

@Nomoreusernames1244

O/p, i was where you are 5 years ago. Couldn’t get an interview, let alone a job.

I found the trick was to focus on governmental type roles- they have very clear recruitment and is often formulaic, competency and points based, as long as you can hit the key phrases and examples, the previous structure of your career doesn’t come into it.

So Nhs, civil service, council, police etc. Once I got an interview, it was simple to c&p, make minor adjustments to suit the role, and I was getting interviews every time.

Then once I started getting the interviews, i went to all of them and the practice meant I learned the structure and the answers. They were also very good at feedback and even in some cases inviting me in to show me the role and talk through it.

I got a basic admin role, and once you’re in these organisations moving roles for experience and promotion is very much encouraged. You’ve now also got that recent employment on your cv.

This is really helpful advice, thank you. I’m not looking for work yet but I expect to be in this situation in 2-3 years when my youngest starts nursery.

@Franklin12

Stary. Can you not see how your attitude will massively work against you. You honestly sound like a complete nightmare with that sort of attitude.

I feel the same about you as a recruiter and it completely puts me off.

So it’s irrelevant isn’t it.

I was a SAHM for 12 years and went back to the same level job I'd left.

I was careful to do good quality volunteer roles which kept my skills up to date and made sure I kept up my professional memberships etc

I agree with what others have said, term time school admin jobs are really popular and hard to get. I'd suggest looking at some alternative routes, temp or agency contracts are a good way to get a foot in the door. I now work at an FE college and we're struggling to fill our admin roles because they're relatively low paid compared to other education settings, that might be a way of getting some relevant recent experience?

I forgot to add that we've recently recruited someone who had been a SAHM for about 7 years over half a dozen younger, also perfectly qualified candidates. She was taking a significant step down compared to her previous role and it was obvious she would be able to do the job without ever breaking a sweat. She was fantastically well-prepared for the interview and was a good fit for our part time role. Many of the other candidates would have been wanting a full time position but settled for part time (and may have left as soon as a full time role came up). I basically bit her hand off and made sure we would accommodate her preferred hours.

We're in the civil service and this is a good place to look, as PPs have suggested. Structured and generally fair interview processes, good opportunities for moving into other roles later on, and generally good work life balance.

DH is a CEO and his organisation has the recruitment motto that they “recruit for attitude rather than just experience.” It has worked well for them but I can tell from the responses that they are in the minority.

I dont think that's right, reading the thread tbh. No one said they would totally discount sahm. Personality is important.

But if yiu have 2 candidates of equal standing and one has recent, demonstrated experience they will get it 95% of time.

The people who interviewed may have like your 'attitude' but also liked the 'attitude' of the other person just as much.

The other issue with recruiting on attitude as the primary criteria is that it will change from role to role. You may fit one role bit not another.

The other thing I would say, is that jobs is schools are like rocking horse shit and usually do have lots of candidates. That will reduce the liklihood of getting it.

Down to the final 2 is actually very good.

If you haven't already do voluntary work. I ran fundraising events when I was a sahm and that got me a paid job doing it

I think another factor is that SAHM are always the ones that get called to pick up sick kids from school so an employer would be expecting you to be needing to leave often for sick kids from school.

Yes, I get Stary is talking about NMW roles rather than middle management roles where commitment is valued.

I have my SIL who hasn’t worked for over 15 years telling me I am lucky to have both a state and private pension. Well that is how it works after having worked over 40 years!

I imagine school admin is very competitive as it would be seen as family friendly. Is there a reason you want to do that specifically ? Lots of public sector (and other) admin jobs can be family friendly too.

What would put me off the most is if the sahm tried to make bold claims that juggling family life etc made them impressive- because (due to flexible hours) I am doing all that and my career.

I have recruited SAHM after long career breaks and in each case they had focussed their CVs on their professional skills. They were all excellent and picked everything back up quickly.

Most had done some relevant volunteering or kept their foot in the door in a small way however, but I could understand that that wouldn't be an option for everyone

@Benedictcucumber

One time I recruited for an admin role I choose the SAHM - we had interviewed about 5 people and it came down to the SAHM with good admin experience, although the experience was 8+ years old, versus a recent university leaver who had crammed SO MUCH into the very few years since she left school and seemed very ambitious. They were pretty even in the interview and the desktop test. We went for the SAHM as we thought she was a better fit for the role and thought that she would be more likely to stay with us for a while as the role was exactly what she was looking for in relation to school pick ups. Also the role was one where you needed enhanced vetting due to the environment so it was such a pain when you spend months getting someone in, train them up and then they leave so you have to recruit again, as you’d spend months without someone in post in between. She did really well in that role and has moved upwards internally a few times since.

I agree with this, and is pretty much my experience too.

Nothing you're doing wrong OP, you just need to find the right fit.

I recruit and understand that people have breaks in their working history for very good reasons. The right fit for the team and attitude means a lot to my organisation and is drawn out in the questions asked.

It would be helpful to know that your office/IT skills are fairly up to date (but have always trained the right candidates when they weren't bang up to date).

Could you do a couple of refresher courses so that you can demonstrate your skills are current examples here, you could just go in at the intermediate/advanced level if that's appropriate. Might give you an edge next time.

I interview for the civil service frequently for my team and as an independent panel member. It makes no difference to me as long as that person has examples to use as part of success profiles framework. So it might be SAHM’s don’t do as well (no idea if that’s a thing as guess they don’t keep any stats on current jobs etc) because they don’t have as many examples. Saying that my neighbour got a job in my team (I actually wasn’t involved as I knew him) after 7yrs as a stay at home dad. He used examples from his career from a few years back and also from his private life (volunteer).

Also look at civil service instead of school admin as we do term time / part time and super family friendly.

I went back to work 12 years after becoming a SAHM. I now work in a school. But I had been doing some voluntary work - just an hour or two a week and often in the evenings when DH was home. I had also been a parent/reader at his school for a year before I got paid employment. I knew I wanted to work in a school for the holidays etc so volunteered in the school to get that on my c.v.

I also started a small craft business on line during that time, mainly because my mum had dementia and I needed to take her to appointments etc. That meant a job with strict hours wouldn't work - no one will let you have that much time off work when you'd only just joined. So I worked with what I could do and started a little business to keep myself sane. It isn't related to my current school job in any way at all.

What it gave me, though, was up to date skills in Excel, Word etc., Accounting knowledge, design skills (I designed and built my own website with no prior knowledge or computing experience) and softer skills like customer care and negotiating on things like packaging etc.,

All of which helped me when I applied for my current job.

I agree that the 'time management' aspect of being a SAHM isn't a great thing to put on a C.V. A working parent also has to do time management so you're looking for something different. Something that shows initiative and an understanding of what an employer may look for.

Helping to fund raising at the school, becoming a school governor or helping at the local food bank. A local faith group (church, synagogue etc) always need volunteers in the office. Our local church has people to help with social media or updating the website. They've just had a volunteer starting to put together a Powerpoint presentation library as so many services (Sunday service, weddings, funerals etc) are still being shown remotely that the vicar wanted appropriate 'holding' photographs and music for people who joined the remote service early. All of those skills are transferable and valuable to an employer.

Even using Excel to keep a track of the family budget shows you know the latest packages. It's finding ways to become up to date with your skills. A lot of recruiters used to offer updating on PC packages. I don't know if that's still the case, but there's nothing to stop you open up Excel (or Powerpoint or whatever) and YouTube and teaching yourself. My DS has taught himself keyboards with YouTube - so everything's available!

It's the ability to speak with confidence and knowledge about packages that shows you can use them on your c.v.

@rainbowandglitter

I think another factor is that SAHM are always the ones that get called to pick up sick kids from school so an employer would be expecting you to be needing to leave often for sick kids from school.

Not my experience at all, my workplaces (both public and private sector) have always made allowances for emergency caring responsibilities - because life ticks outside the workplace and a good employee needs to be able to deal with life as well as work.

IME if you treat people well your staff stay onboard and reward your investment in them. Costs far less in the long run.